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Author Topic:   Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?
Larni
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 91 of 214 (598235)
12-29-2010 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 6:08 PM


Re: Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?
Larni writes:
I would remove feline leukaemia from the world.
Does that answer your question?
Does that answer your question?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 6:08 PM Philip Johnson has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 6:35 PM Larni has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 92 of 214 (598236)
12-29-2010 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 5:44 PM


Re: Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?
That might be something you are interested in but it is irrelevant to this thread and far off topic.
The question in this thread is "Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?"

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 5:44 PM Philip Johnson has not replied

  
Philip Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 5084 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 12-29-2010


Message 93 of 214 (598252)
12-29-2010 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Larni
12-29-2010 6:14 PM


Re: Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?
"I would remove feline leukaemia from the world."
Would you change anything outside of the earth?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Larni, posted 12-29-2010 6:14 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Larni, posted 12-29-2010 6:38 PM Philip Johnson has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 94 of 214 (598254)
12-29-2010 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Philip Johnson
12-29-2010 6:35 PM


Re: Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?
Would you change anything outside of the earth?
Comets that might one day hit Earth and ruin my day.
Next?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-29-2010 6:35 PM Philip Johnson has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-30-2010 9:28 AM Larni has replied
 Message 97 by subbie, posted 12-30-2010 9:34 AM Larni has not replied

  
Philip Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 5084 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 12-29-2010


(1)
Message 95 of 214 (598309)
12-30-2010 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Larni
12-29-2010 6:38 PM


Re: Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?
The initial question was "Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?"
Yes it does. If the Designer designed that if you fall 40+ feet you will likely die, then it does matter that you avoid falling 40+ feet if you do not want to die. What does NOT matter is if you do not like the fact that Designer designed it that way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Larni, posted 12-29-2010 6:38 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by subbie, posted 12-30-2010 9:32 AM Philip Johnson has replied
 Message 98 by jar, posted 12-30-2010 9:55 AM Philip Johnson has not replied
 Message 141 by Larni, posted 12-30-2010 5:22 PM Philip Johnson has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 96 of 214 (598311)
12-30-2010 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Philip Johnson
12-30-2010 9:28 AM


Re: Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?
Yes it does. If the Designer designed that if you fall 40+ feet you will likely die, then it does matter that you avoid falling 40+ feet if you do not want to die.
No. If falling 40 feet will kill you, you want to avoid falling 40 feet. And that's regardless of whether a designer is involved or not.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-30-2010 9:28 AM Philip Johnson has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-30-2010 10:02 AM subbie has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 97 of 214 (598312)
12-30-2010 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Larni
12-29-2010 6:38 PM


Re: Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?
Comets that might one day hit Earth and ruin my day.
Typical atheistic evilutionistic response, only thinking of yourself and not all of jeebus's creatures. (Sorry, couldn't resist. Carry on.)

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Larni, posted 12-29-2010 6:38 PM Larni has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 98 of 214 (598315)
12-30-2010 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Philip Johnson
12-30-2010 9:28 AM


Re: Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?
jar writes:
The initial question was "Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?"
Yes it does. If the Designer designed that if you fall 40+ feet you will likely die, then it does matter that you avoid falling 40+ feet if you do not want to die. What does NOT matter is if you do not like the fact that Designer designed it that way.
Again, just utter nonsense.
Nothing in there support any value to the designer.
You seem to be conflating the object with some designer. If something breaks if it falls 40 feet, does it matter whether it was designed to break in a 40 foot fall or just breaks in a 40 foot fall because the chemical and physical properties of the component parts came together through evolving naturally?
What is the value of the designer. Does it matter if the designer is Loki, Coyote, Yahweh, or Tom Thumb?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-30-2010 9:28 AM Philip Johnson has not replied

  
Philip Johnson
Junior Member (Idle past 5084 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 12-29-2010


Message 99 of 214 (598317)
12-30-2010 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by subbie
12-30-2010 9:32 AM


Re: Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?
subbie wrote: "No. If falling 40 feet will kill you, you want to avoid falling 40 feet. And that's regardless of whether a designer is involved or not."
The initial question is based on the idea that there IS a designer. The initial question was "Even if THERE WAS a Designer, does it matter?"
So yes it does. If the Designer designed that if you fall 40+ feet you will likely die, then it does matter that you avoid falling 40+ feet if you do not want to die.
Likewise, just as you should pay attention to the natural laws that the Designer designed, you should pay attention to the spiritual laws that the Designer designed.
So it would seem to matter a great deal IF there was a Designer (which is the question of this topic).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by subbie, posted 12-30-2010 9:32 AM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by subbie, posted 12-30-2010 10:16 AM Philip Johnson has not replied
 Message 160 by mike the wiz, posted 01-01-2011 8:04 AM Philip Johnson has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 100 of 214 (598320)
12-30-2010 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Philip Johnson
12-30-2010 10:02 AM


Re: Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?
The initial question is based on the idea that there IS a designer. The initial question was "Even if THERE WAS a Designer, does it matter?"
So yes it does. If the Designer designed that if you fall 40+ feet you will likely die, then it does matter that you avoid falling 40+ feet if you do not want to die.
The world is as it is. The question asks what difference would it make if there is or isn't a designer. We die if we fall 40 feet. This is a fact. (Actually, I'm aware that there are many exceptions to this "fact" but I'm willing to overlook them for purposes of this discussion, so pedants back off.) Whether we were designed this way or we are the result of an evolutionary process does not change the fact.
Likewise, just as you should pay attention to the natural laws that the Designer designed, you should pay attention to the spiritual laws that the Designer designed.
So it would seem to matter a great deal IF there was a Designer (which is the question of this topic).
No, it really isn't. The actual topic relates to ID and how the existence of a designer would advance our understanding of the real world. The spiritual stuff is totally off topic.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Philip Johnson, posted 12-30-2010 10:02 AM Philip Johnson has not replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 5047 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 101 of 214 (598331)
12-30-2010 11:27 AM


jar writes:
What is the value of the designer. Does it matter if the designer is Loki, Coyote, Yahweh, or Tom Thumb?
subbie writes:
the spiritual stuff is totally off topic
"IF" there is a designer and "IF" he is the Yahweh of the Holy Bible and "IF" what the bible says is true, then it absolutely matters because where you spend all of eternity is at stake.
IF there is no designer then nothing matters because there is no purpose.
IF there is a designer and he has a grand purpose for his design then everything matters.
What is the value of the designer? IF the design could not exist without the designer then his value is all of existence!
IF is a big word.

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 12-30-2010 11:48 AM ICdesign has replied
 Message 107 by bluescat48, posted 12-30-2010 12:44 PM ICdesign has replied
 Message 115 by subbie, posted 12-30-2010 1:57 PM ICdesign has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 102 of 214 (598336)
12-30-2010 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by ICdesign
12-30-2010 11:27 AM


That still does not explain the value of the designer.
The issue relates to the concept of Intelligent Design.
Even if there was some Intelligent Designers, does it matter?
Does it matter who designed the first radio or automobile or plane or train or box or match or button?
Other than the two areas I outline, does the designer actually matter?
Edited by jar, : hit send key too soon.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by ICdesign, posted 12-30-2010 11:27 AM ICdesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by ICdesign, posted 12-30-2010 11:59 AM jar has replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 5047 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 103 of 214 (598337)
12-30-2010 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by jar
12-30-2010 11:48 AM


jar writes:
That still does not explain the value of the designer.
Loud and clear for me.
I'm not even a little bit surprised that the simplest truth is unclear to you jar.
Does it matter who designed the first radio or automobile or plane or train or box or match or button?
YES it absolutely matters. Without the designer of those items we would not have any of those items!!!
....I've heard of the light being on but nobody home but your house doesn't even have a candle burning
Edited by ICdesign, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 12-30-2010 11:48 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 12-30-2010 12:16 PM ICdesign has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 104 of 214 (598338)
12-30-2010 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by ICdesign
12-30-2010 11:59 AM


How does it matter? They exist. They exist whether there was a designer or not.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by ICdesign, posted 12-30-2010 11:59 AM ICdesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by ICdesign, posted 12-30-2010 12:30 PM jar has replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 5047 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 105 of 214 (598340)
12-30-2010 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by jar
12-30-2010 12:16 PM


jar writes:
How does it matter? They exist. They exist whether there was a designer or not.
If they were not designed by a designer would they exist?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 12-30-2010 12:16 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by jar, posted 12-30-2010 12:38 PM ICdesign has replied

  
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