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Author Topic:   Research for a book - Survey of various dating methods
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9269
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 22 of 82 (595773)
12-10-2010 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by damoncasale
12-10-2010 9:31 AM


Source?
Umm...have you heard of the planisphere that was discovered in Mesopotamia? (Tablet K8538 in the British Museum in London.) It basically showed that ancient peoples were using constellations to represent places on Earth.
Please show a source for this speculation. I have not heard of this before and would like to see some real background info on it.
In a quick Google search there is lifttle about this. But everyone seems to agree it dates to about 700 BCE, not 3000 BCE. All the information about this seems to come from this book.
A Sumerian Observation of the Kfels' Impact Event
Here is one review of the book
quote:
For those who do have these interests, I think you will find what I did, and what the authors themselves admit from the very beginning, the arguments are very circular. The authors use what they want to prove as part of the argument. They want to show that the Kfels' formation near the village of Kfels' in Austria was an impact crater rather than a slide or volcanic structure, that it occurred in the period from 3500-2000 BC, and that Sumerian disk shaped object K8538 in the British Museum's cuneiform collection, generally referred to as the "Planisphere," depicted this event. They then proceed to adjust the data of all sides until it fit's their proposal. Data which does not agree with the theory is discredited or reread. Their basis for this is generally acceptable research by others, but the research results are by no means consensual among the field's professionals. This doesn't mean that the results are "wrong," only that they have not withstood the scrutiny of time and further study. In fact, the reports the authors use, are just that: "further study" and part of the scientific "scrutiny" in the field.
Source
Sounds like unevidenced new age hooey to me.
More
quote:
In a self-published book[2] co-authored with Mark Hempsell, an engineer at the University of Bristol, Bond claimed to have deciphered an Assyrian clay tablet dated to 700 BC that they argued might describe an asteroid strike causing a landslide at Kfels in Tyrol in 3123 BC. They relate this to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.[3] The landslide is normally dated to about 9800 years ago[4] long before the tablet was recorded and over 4500 years before the Bristol researchers date.[5] Bond and Hempsell have suggested that there was contamination, a claim that has been denied by other research.[6] The impact theory had already been proposed in 1936 by the Austrian scientist Franz Eduard Suess and later on by Alexander Tollmann, who hypothetized impacts in around 7640 BCE and 3150 BCE, respectively. The issue of whether an impact caused the landslide has been researched and no evidence was found for an asteroid, meteorite or comet, and geologists believe it was caused by other factors such as 'deep creep'.[7].
Also from the wiki on Mr. Bond.
quote:
Alan Bond is an engineer, with a degree in Mechanical Engineering. He worked on liquid rocket engines, principally the RZ2 (liquid oxygen / kerosene) and the RZ20 (liquid oxygen / liquid hydrogen) at Rolls Royce under the tutelage of Val Cleaver, and he was also involved with flight trials of the Blue Streak at Woomera.
Real expertise in the subject matter I see.
I would be real careful if I were you before I relied on this self published, non peer reviewed, collection of pages with writing on it, for anything.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by damoncasale, posted 12-10-2010 9:31 AM damoncasale has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9269
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 25 of 82 (595785)
12-10-2010 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by damoncasale
12-10-2010 11:04 AM


Really?
Astronomical knowledge and observation techniques has *declined* from roughly 3500 BC onwards. It's only gotten worse, not better.
So you are proposing that astronomical knowledge and observation techniques were more advanced in 3500 BCE than they are now?
There is a book titled "Civilization One" by Christopher Knight and Alan Butler which discusses the way that ancient peoples were able to create standardized units of weight, measurement time, etc., based on astronomical measurements. They understood that the earth was a sphere and somehow knew how to calculate latitude and even longitude (using lunar eclipses, apparently).
This has nothing to do with the topic, but it shows us clearly where you are coming from. You have no interest in actual history or science. Your intended book will just be another tome of new age woo.
Christopher Knight does not seem to be a scientist or even a historian.
quote:
Christopher Knight is an author who has written several pseudoarcaeological and pseudohistorical books dealing with theories such as 366-degree geometry and the origins of Freemasonry.
Christopher Knight (author) - Wikipedia
Everyone should peruse the titles of his books and do some research on them. I think it will quickly show what damon thinks science and research is.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by damoncasale, posted 12-10-2010 11:04 AM damoncasale has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by damoncasale, posted 12-10-2010 11:47 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9269
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 38 of 82 (595839)
12-10-2010 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by damoncasale
12-10-2010 11:47 AM


Re: Really?
Hopefully it has been obvious *to others* that I'm actually interested in science and not "new age woo." Especially as I accept when others in this thread have mentioned things that were unreliable or unverifiable and I've accepted such.
Please show the things that were mentioned that are "unreliable or unverifiable".
The only things mentioned that I have seen are what you have brought. Everything you have presented is either pseudoscience or pseudohistory. (except of course, "The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes" which the Dr has shown to be not very highly accepted).Nothing you have presented stands up to scrutiny.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by damoncasale, posted 12-10-2010 11:47 AM damoncasale has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9269
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 61 of 82 (596129)
12-13-2010 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by damoncasale
12-12-2010 11:17 PM


Re: Sidebar: Babylonian "Moral Relativism"
I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things. --- Isaiah 45:7
This is a direct reference to Isaiah 10:5. "Oh, Assyrian, the rod of my (god's) anger, and the staff in their hand is my indignation (against Judah)."
Please explain your point here. Since you do not explain your meaning I am not sure whether I disagree with you or not.
These throwaway lines do nothing to forward the debate, you need to explain yourself and support your arguments. That is the purpose of a debate site. If you do not want your comments scrutinized and debated you probably should not post here.
Also, I do not see how the rest of this post has any effect on your argument for Babylonian "Moral Relativism", which has been the subject of the posts of Dr. Adequate.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by damoncasale, posted 12-12-2010 11:17 PM damoncasale has not replied

  
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