Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Articulating In The Debates; The Proper And The Improper.
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 121 of 192 (591983)
11-17-2010 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
11-12-2010 10:41 PM


Excessive arrogance and posturing bothers me, as do juvenile sexual references and sexism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 11-12-2010 10:41 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 122 of 192 (591984)
11-17-2010 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by hooah212002
11-13-2010 10:49 AM


Re: Phats 2 cents
You wish you were as powerful as pussy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by hooah212002, posted 11-13-2010 10:49 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 192 (591986)
11-17-2010 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Straggler
11-17-2010 10:11 AM


Re: No Biblical Profanity
Straggler writes:
wikipedia writes:
Interestingly, the Bible with its talk about men who "eat their own dung, and drink their own piss" is far from the oldest surviving text containing strong language, as even the oldest traces of human writing include swear words.
Straggler, the Bible quote from Wiki pertains to when Jerusalem was under siege and there was no food or water. It was in no wise profanity. Piss and dung were standard wordage. Urine, manure, shit, etc were not Hebrew or Greek words.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Straggler, posted 11-17-2010 10:11 AM Straggler has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 124 of 192 (591989)
11-17-2010 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by purpledawn
11-17-2010 8:16 PM


Re: Reason for the Choice
Long story short: I like to fucking say fuck. You don't like it? Don't talk to me. Easy as that. If Percy has a problem with it, he can suspend my account because I say fuck too much. I personally think you are making much ado about nothing.
BTW, I haven't said that profanity offends me. Pay attention to what I've written.
I am paying attention. You are the one making the biggest stink about it, therefor, you are making it obvious you have a problem with it.
That is my point. This forum is a mixed bag of gender, age, cultures, beliefs, lifestyles, etc. When debating we shouldn't assume an opponent knows all the same slang or even the same level of vocabulary that we do.
Normally, when you don't understand a term or phrase, you either ask what it means or look it up.
Why are you on the defensive? Are you unable to have an emotionally uncommitted discussion about your choice of words?
I'm not defensive. I think you read too much into what I am saying. You seem to be taking what I am saying personally.
Why did you choose the more emphatic word one time and not the other?
That's just it: I don't use FUCK because it's more emphatic. I use it because it is a word in my vocabulary.
Your position has been they they are just words and while I agree they are words, words have meanings and project or elicit emotions.
And you expect me to assume to know how the lot of you are going to perceive what I say? Am I a mind reader?
You want me to believe that when you use profanity, you are not projecting any harsh emotions at your opponent or casting a harsh tone on your post.
You can believe whatever you want. I am saying that I am not projecting anything. Fuck is just a word to me.
In your rather useless response you said you didn't feel like. This tells me that there is a feeling that goes along with the use of profanity. It may be stronger feelings for the subject being discussed, the opponent, events of the day, or all of the above. Different emotions are being projected than when using the more neutral word.
That is your opinion. You say it as though you speak for everyone. I've already made clear that fuck carries no more meaning that the word "fork" or "frig". I just like the sound of it more.
Look at what you and crash have done in this discussion. You've brought no facts or reasoning, just belittling bluster.
I've yet to belittle anyone. I am the one here defending why I say fuck and that is what I am doing: defending why I say fuck. As a matter of fact, I think you are the belittling one with your little "pay attention" remarks. But I'm not going to be a little prissy faggot about it and complain.

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by purpledawn, posted 11-17-2010 8:16 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Coyote, posted 11-17-2010 9:13 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 127 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2010 9:48 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 128 by ringo, posted 11-18-2010 1:03 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 129 by purpledawn, posted 11-18-2010 10:35 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 125 of 192 (591992)
11-17-2010 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by hooah212002
11-17-2010 9:01 PM


Re: Reason for the Choice
Hooha, you have reached a new low in class.
You write like a 12-year old who has newly discovered swear words.
If this software had a feature to put other posters on "global ignore" you would be my first candidate.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by hooah212002, posted 11-17-2010 9:01 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-19-2010 3:22 PM Coyote has not replied
 Message 168 by Minnemooseus, posted 11-25-2010 8:37 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 126 of 192 (591994)
11-17-2010 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by crashfrog
11-15-2010 11:47 AM


Re: Public Internet Forum
crashfrog writes:
It's not a "public forum." It's an internet forum.
It's a public Internet forum, if that makes any difference to you.
Online Dictionary; public:
1. The community or the people as a whole.
2. A group of people sharing a common interest: the reading public.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by crashfrog, posted 11-15-2010 11:47 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 192 (591997)
11-17-2010 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by hooah212002
11-17-2010 9:01 PM


Never Say Never
hooah writes:
I've yet to belittle anyone.
Really?
Synonyms for belittle; Merriam Webster:
Synonyms: bad-mouth, decry, cry down, denigrate, deprecate, depreciate, derogate, diminish, dis (also diss) [slang], discount, dismiss, disparage, kiss off, minimize, play down, poor-mouth, put down, run down, talk down, trash, trash-talk, vilipend, write off.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by hooah212002, posted 11-17-2010 9:01 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 128 of 192 (592025)
11-18-2010 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by hooah212002
11-17-2010 9:01 PM


Re: Reason for the Choice
hooah212002 writes:
I've yet to belittle anyone.
You can strangle the definition all you want but calling somebody a "scumbag" is way out of line. It isn't even in the parking lot of the ballpark of acceptable behaviour.
You should be ashamed of yourself, if only for making people agree with Buzsaw.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by hooah212002, posted 11-17-2010 9:01 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 129 of 192 (592075)
11-18-2010 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by hooah212002
11-17-2010 9:01 PM


Final Flush
quote:
Long story short: I like to fucking say fuck. You don't like it? Don't talk to me. Easy as that. If Percy has a problem with it, he can suspend my account because I say fuck too much. I personally think you are making much ado about nothing.
Thank you Captain Obvious. This thread is about articulation which means expressing oneself easily and clearly. This isn’t about changing any rules at EvC.
quote:
You can believe whatever you want. I am saying that I am not projecting anything. Fuck is just a word to me.
That is your opinion. You say it as though you speak for everyone. I've already made clear that fuck carries no more meaning that the word "fork" or "frig". I just like the sound of it more.
Keep telling yourself that.
We have words in our vocabulary and each has a meaning to it. We choose them because of the meaning and what we wish to tell our opponent. Using the word pussy is not emotionless unless you are talking about a feline. It’s an insult and belittling unless there is sufficient body language to suggest otherwise.
Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for a woman.
Slang : A man regarded as weak, timid, or unmanly.
Words such as shrinking violet, fainting couch, pussy, etc. imply weakness. What the user is saying is that the opinions of his opponent are unimportant because the person is weak. That’s belittling.
As I keep reminding you, we can’t see body language through the computer. We have to make it known through our words. We can't tell if our opponent is an emotionless robot with a limited vocabulary chip or not.
The f word has an original meaning and some slang meanings. There are uses that actually have no meaning. The word serves no purpose and adds no value to the sentence other than for effect. Take your first sentence.
Long story short: I like to fucking say fuck.
The first usage serves no purpose. No added value to the sentence.
Do you understand yet? You aren’t writing to a little avatar in the corner of your monitor. You are writing to an audience. You aren’t writing to yourself. You are writing to another person.
The immature drivel that comes out in some of your posts is not benign. You like the sound of the words, but you aren’t writing to yourself. You are writing to another person.
So if the word serves no purpose in the sentence and has nothing to do with the information you're passing on, why choose a word that will potentially inflame your opponent if that is not your intent as you claim?
If the word has no emotional value as you claim and you aren’t trying to project that emotion to your opponent, why not choose a more benign word or leave it out when it serves no purpose?
You say because you like the sound of it, take it or leave it. You write what sounds good to you. Buz writes what sounds good to him. DB writes what sounds good to him. If you don’t like the way they write, then don’t converse with them. Why keep insulting their style of writing and asking them to change when you aren’t willing to adjust yourself?
People in grass houses shouldn't stow thrones. IOW, until you fix your own drivel, don't worry about Buz. Argue the position presented and if you don't understand what your opponent said, just ask nicely and I'm sure he will enlighten you.
I seriously doubt if you have anything intelligent to add to what you have already blessed us with, so time to shut the lid and flush.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by hooah212002, posted 11-17-2010 9:01 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
Message 130 of 192 (592325)
11-19-2010 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by purpledawn
11-17-2010 8:16 PM


Re: Reason for the Choice
The point of the debate is to defend your position with facts, not bluster.
No.
The point of the debate is to convince. As a speech act, convincing someone - not necessarily your opponent - is a process that necessitates both facts and emotion. The conceit that we can all somehow be Spock and operate on the level of a logic that transcends and is not affected by emotion is a false one. I can't take a position that I think is correct without also feeling that it is correct. I can't tell you you're wrong without also feeling like you're wrong.
The notion that human rationality is a process where logical clarity competes with muddling, base emotions is an idea that has been discredited for 30 years. We now know that the process of human cognition is one where rationality and emotion work together.
You've tried to give examples of the "emotionless" speech you think the debate should engender, but no speech is emotionless. We're human beings! Everything we do is inflected with emotion, and to disqualify someone's debate on the grounds that they've not been sufficiently dispassionate is absurd - people get passionate in proportion to the supporting evidence they believe they have for their position. To disqualify on those grounds is to say "you're so right, you must be wrong."
Debate is not just a process where I try to convince you to think I'm right. It's a process where I also have to try to convince you to feel that I'm right. And emotion-charged language is necessarily going to play a role in that, regardless of how Webster's defines "debate."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by purpledawn, posted 11-17-2010 8:16 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by purpledawn, posted 11-19-2010 7:19 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 143 by purpledawn, posted 11-21-2010 6:42 AM crashfrog has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 131 of 192 (592330)
11-19-2010 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Straggler
11-17-2010 10:11 AM


Re: Reason for the Choice
Personally I think a piece of well placed profanity adds a certain je ne sais quoi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Straggler, posted 11-17-2010 10:11 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Straggler, posted 11-21-2010 8:30 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 132 of 192 (592331)
11-19-2010 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Coyote
11-17-2010 9:13 PM


Re: Reason for the Choice
If this software had a feature to put other posters on "global ignore" you would be my first candidate.
Yup... where's the blacklist when you need it.
I have yet to see hooah add anything substantial to a debate.
He is now another poster that I just glance over and forget about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Coyote, posted 11-17-2010 9:13 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by nwr, posted 11-20-2010 12:40 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 133 of 192 (592347)
11-19-2010 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by crashfrog
11-19-2010 2:13 PM


Words and Emotions
quote:
You've tried to give examples of the "emotionless" speech you think the debate should engender, but no speech is emotionless.
Show me where I've done this. I've been trying to convince Hooah that what we write does carry emotion and he needs to be more aware of what emotion he is presenting.
PurpleDawn writes:
Your position has been they they are just words and while I agree they are words, words have meanings and project or elicit emotions.
He's the one who claims there is no emotion in what he writes.
quote:
Debate is not just a process where I try to convince you to think I'm right. It's a process where I also have to try to convince you to feel that I'm right. And emotion-charged language is necessarily going to play a role in that, regardless of how Webster's defines "debate."
If used properly. If used indiscriminately, it can inflame and derail the debate. I don't consider you to be one who uses profanity indiscriminately. You also don't claim not to be expressing the emotion your strong language suggests.
Hooah claims his profanity is not emotionally charged. My question to him is why use something that is expressing the wrong emotion?
Edited by purpledawn, : New Subtitle

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by crashfrog, posted 11-19-2010 2:13 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by crashfrog, posted 11-20-2010 2:07 AM purpledawn has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 134 of 192 (592380)
11-20-2010 2:07 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by purpledawn
11-19-2010 7:19 PM


Re: Words and Emotions
If used indiscriminately, it can inflame and derail the debate.
Do Hooah's opponents somehow lack any agency of their own? Don't they have any responsibility not to get "inflamed"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by purpledawn, posted 11-19-2010 7:19 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by purpledawn, posted 11-20-2010 2:26 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 135 of 192 (592387)
11-20-2010 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by crashfrog
11-20-2010 2:07 AM


Re: Words and Emotions
quote:
Do Hooah's opponents somehow lack any agency of their own? Don't they have any responsibility not to get "inflamed"?
Responsibility goes both ways.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by crashfrog, posted 11-20-2010 2:07 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024