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Author Topic:   Potential falsifications of the theory of evolution
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 256 of 968 (591639)
11-15-2010 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by AlphaOmegakid
11-15-2010 9:21 AM


Re: Which side are you on?
And you are neglecting one important imaginary factor, namely magic. Prominent evomagicologists have determined that in the imaginary presence of large quantities of magic, such as are imagined to have been present during the imaginary magic evoflood, everything magically works out so that evolutionists are magically right ... or so they imagine.
Does Polly want a cracker?
Back in the real world outside your head, "evos" are the ones that attribute things to non- magical causes. That's basically our whole schtick.
Now you do realize that evos have a global flood also, don't you?
No, because this is a lie that you made up. Which is why you can produce no evidence for the lie that you made up. Because it's a lie that you made up.
I say a lie that you've made up because this is not even a conventional creationist lie. Indeed, I am hard put to know what you are lying about, unless perhaps it is the occasional global rises in sea level which have never ever flooded the entire world.
Please could you add some substance to your lie.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 11-15-2010 9:21 AM AlphaOmegakid has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 11-15-2010 11:00 AM Dr Adequate has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 257 of 968 (591640)
11-15-2010 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by AlphaOmegakid
11-15-2010 10:21 AM


Can you post anything relevant?
And the evidence for that is ... ?
And even if true, what does that have to do with the topic or the absolute FACT that the Biblical Flood never happened?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 11-15-2010 10:21 AM AlphaOmegakid has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 258 of 968 (591641)
11-15-2010 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by AlphaOmegakid
11-15-2010 10:21 AM


Re: Which side are you on?
Oh about 4bya in evo time
Which landmasses were flooded 4bya?
Oh, right, there weren't any.
You are, then, lying about the time when the Earth was originally covered with ocean and there was no land to be flooded.
You are a funny little man.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 11-15-2010 10:21 AM AlphaOmegakid has not replied

AlphaOmegakid
Member (Idle past 2876 days)
Posts: 564
From: The city of God
Joined: 06-25-2008


Message 259 of 968 (591643)
11-15-2010 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by dwise1
11-15-2010 10:11 AM


Re: Which side are you on?
No, I wasn't referring to that. A much bigger global flood. The one where it rained for forty days....Sorry 1000's of years and covered most of the earth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by dwise1, posted 11-15-2010 10:11 AM dwise1 has not replied

AlphaOmegakid
Member (Idle past 2876 days)
Posts: 564
From: The city of God
Joined: 06-25-2008


Message 260 of 968 (591645)
11-15-2010 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by Dr Adequate
11-15-2010 10:28 AM


Re: Which side are you on?
No, because this is a lie that you made up. Which is why you can produce no evidence for the lie that you made up. Because it's a lie that you made up.
I say a lie that you've made up because this is not even a conventional creationist lie. Indeed, I am hard put to know what you are lying about, unless perhaps it is the occasional global rises in sea level which have never ever flooded the entire world.
Please could you add some substance to your lie.
It's really not nice to call someone a liar when they are only referring to the science in which you believe. When this earth was evo formed,not matter how it was evo formed, there were no oceans. Now there are!
Do you realize that there really is land under the oceans? And that that land is flooded? So is much of the land on the continents in what we cal lakes.
The evo magic made it rain a lot longer than forty days for all this flooding to take place.
I can provide citations if you want, but only you will be embarrassed to find out that I am not lying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-15-2010 10:28 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by jar, posted 11-15-2010 11:25 AM AlphaOmegakid has not replied
 Message 262 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-15-2010 11:32 AM AlphaOmegakid has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 261 of 968 (591648)
11-15-2010 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by AlphaOmegakid
11-15-2010 11:00 AM


Must you continue to make Christians look stupid?
Sheesh.
No one has ever said there have not been floods.
Certainly there was a time when the surface of the earth was too hot for standing water.
Certainly, as the surface cooled the water that had been suspended in the atmosphere condensed out.
Was it "A Flood"?
Nope.
It was lots of floods over a very extended period.
BUT as usual, that has nothing to do with the topic, would not in any way falsify the theory of evolution or add any support to the Biblical Flood.
Try to at least bring up things that might be related to the subject.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 11-15-2010 11:00 AM AlphaOmegakid has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by Panda, posted 11-15-2010 11:34 AM jar has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 262 of 968 (591650)
11-15-2010 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by AlphaOmegakid
11-15-2010 11:00 AM


Re: Which side are you on?
It's really not nice to call someone a liar when they are only referring to the science in which you believe. When this earth was evo formed,not matter how it was evo formed, there were no oceans. Now there are!
And this you wish to refer to as a "global flood". Well, if you want educated people to have no idea what you're talking about, and creationists to be deceived, then I advise you to continue to do so.
The evo magic ...
... is a stupid lie that you've made up in your head, since geologists (I presume that that's what you mean by "evos" --- did you take a vow to be wrong about everything?) ascribe real things to real non-magical causes.
Now that you've finished being wrong about this, could I remind you that you were meant to be being wrong about genetics? Your latest drivel seems no more than a smokescreen to escape the point that your fantasies about genetics contradict your fantasies about Noah's Flood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 11-15-2010 11:00 AM AlphaOmegakid has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 11-15-2010 3:19 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 263 of 968 (591653)
11-15-2010 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by jar
11-15-2010 11:25 AM


Re: Must you continue to make Christians look stupid?
jar writes:
It was lots of floods over a very extended period.
But Aok says it was a global flood not lots of floods!!
AOK writes:
Now you do realize that evos have a global flood also, don't you?
So it must have happened!!
Unless Aok is lying, of course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by jar, posted 11-15-2010 11:25 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by jar, posted 11-15-2010 12:17 PM Panda has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 264 of 968 (591662)
11-15-2010 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Panda
11-15-2010 11:34 AM


Re: Must you continue to make Christians look stupid?
I don't think he is lying, or that such a charge is warranted at all. He is simply ignorant of what science actually says and what evidence actually is.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Panda, posted 11-15-2010 11:34 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Panda, posted 11-15-2010 12:22 PM jar has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 265 of 968 (591664)
11-15-2010 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by jar
11-15-2010 12:17 PM


Re: Must you continue to make Christians look stupid?
jar writes:
I don't think he is lying, or that such a charge is warranted at all.
His blatant equivocation in his later posts leads me to think he is not debating honestly.
I think he knows when he gets things wrong and lies to cover up his mistakes.
I could be wrong, but that is what my instincts are telling me.
*shrug*

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by jar, posted 11-15-2010 12:17 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by jar, posted 11-15-2010 12:44 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 266 of 968 (591671)
11-15-2010 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by AlphaOmegakid
11-15-2010 10:08 AM


Re: Which side are you on?
My claim is that genetic entropy is real, and it can be modelled using MA.
If it is real then you should be able to point to a naturally occuring population in which genetic entropy is occuring and can be verified. Can you point to one? The only populations you have pointed to thus far are populations that are declining because of habitat loss, not because of deleterious mutations.
The problem is not the environment. Humans live and have lived in many environments. So have most other animals. The problems are the mutations and mutational load that doesn't allow for adaptation.
Evidence please. For a specific example, can you please point to the genetic differences between humans and chimps that could not have been produced by the observed mechanisms of mutation and selection.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 11-15-2010 10:08 AM AlphaOmegakid has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 267 of 968 (591675)
11-15-2010 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Panda
11-15-2010 12:22 PM


Re: Must you continue to make Christians look stupid?
Not at all.
You make the mistake of thinking "he knows when he gets things wrong" when in fact, I imagine he knows that he is right.
Remember, he comes from a training regimen that requires taught him that if one thing in the Bible is not factually true, then it is all false.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Panda, posted 11-15-2010 12:22 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 268 of 968 (591690)
11-15-2010 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by AlphaOmegakid
11-15-2010 10:08 AM


Re: Which side are you on?
Alpha writes:
bluegenes writes:
You entered the thread making the claim that "genetic entropy" would falsify "macro-evolution", or so I understood.
No, not at all. My claim is that genetic entropy is real, and it can be modelled using MA. Through this modeling, it is apparent that using real world values for the variables only fitness declines relative to ancestral populations are possible. This effectively falsifies neo-Darwinian evolution.
Can you model the following for us? A population of African elephants with an average long term adult population of 100,000 with about 125,000 infants being born to each generation (2.5 per average adult female lifetime).
About how many generations would it take before this population would become extinct according to your model using your "real world values"?
Alpha writes:
bluegenes writes:
Yet you seem to be making a case against the view that modern animals could have descended from bottlenecks of two emerging from the Ark after the flood.
Well actually just the opposite. Sanford has data on humans anyway, that the human bottleneck is modeled extremely well using the flood story. It is not modelled well using the theistic evolutionist model or the neoDarwinian model.
Our mtDNA mutation rate forbids a common female ancestor at less than about 15,000 years ago, minimum. Also, do you think it has occurred to Sanford that, on the flood model, stone age skeletons found in the various regions of the world from which DNA can be extracted should be much more similar to each other than they are to their modern regional counterparts? What if that isn't the case?
Alpha writes:
The problem is not the environment. Humans live and have lived in many environments. So have most other animals. The problems are the mutations and mutational load that doesn't allow for adaptation.
Yet all the threatened mammals that we know of are known to have suffered from adverse environmental conditions that have occurred recently and too rapidly for the fixation of any mutations, advantageous or disadvantageous, to be a factor.
Alpha writes:
bluegenes writes:
It would have been impossible for the herbivore populations to achieve the necessary expansion in the first few generations because the carnivores are in their environment, and the numbers aren't balanced (balance requires a lot more individuals in the "prey" species than the "predator" species). There would also be little or nothing for the herbivores to eat.
This is an argument from incredulity.
No. It's based on observations and calculations. Just 100 individual predators (50 species) coming off the Ark and each killing one herbivore per. week would have killed 5,000 herbivores in the first year, meaning that somewhere between 2,500 and 5,000 species would have lost one or both members, and would go extinct.
Now, that's what I call a real bottleneck.
However, I probably shouldn't have mentioned the flood bottleneck as it seems to have led to a diversion from the main topic. Stick to the elephants and their extinction due to accumulated detrimental mutations.
About how many generations would it take on your model?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 11-15-2010 10:08 AM AlphaOmegakid has not replied

AlphaOmegakid
Member (Idle past 2876 days)
Posts: 564
From: The city of God
Joined: 06-25-2008


Message 269 of 968 (591713)
11-15-2010 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Dr Adequate
11-15-2010 11:32 AM


Re: Which side are you on?
And this you wish to refer to as a "global flood".
Why yes, of course! Your flood rained for thousands of years over the entire earth which had to have flooded everywhere, which left the end result of 3/4's of the earth still flooded today.
In comparison, Noah's flood only rained for 40 days and 40 nights, and covered a mere 1/4 of the earth's surface for less than a year and then it all ran off into the flooded areas of the oceans.
Well, if you want educated people to have no idea what you're talking about
I'm certain you couldn't possibly be referring to yourself. You haven't demonstrated your ability of adulthood graspability of some simple genetic concepts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-15-2010 11:32 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-15-2010 3:45 PM AlphaOmegakid has not replied
 Message 271 by bluescat48, posted 11-15-2010 3:48 PM AlphaOmegakid has not replied
 Message 274 by Percy, posted 11-16-2010 9:12 AM AlphaOmegakid has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 270 of 968 (591720)
11-15-2010 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by AlphaOmegakid
11-15-2010 3:19 PM


Re: Which side are you on?
Why yes, of course!
Well, if you wish to be misunderstood ...
... then you might just be a creationist.
I'm certain you couldn't possibly be referring to yourself.
And like many of the things that you are certain of, you are of course completely wrong.
You haven't demonstrated your ability of adulthood graspability of some simple genetic concepts.
Am I to gather from your latest whining that you still don't understand the difference between inbreeding depression and genetic meltdown?
This is amusing.
Let's take it step by step. Do you notice how these two phenomena have two names, which are different? That they are not, for example, both called "genetic meltdown"?
If you can get your head round that, then we can continue.
---
I note that you still haven't begun to explain how your fantasies about genetics can be reconciled with your fantasies about Noah's Ark.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 11-15-2010 3:19 PM AlphaOmegakid has not replied

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