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Author | Topic: Hawking Comes Clean | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
slevesque Member (Idle past 4667 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
Red Herring
We were talking about colliding branes. or first cause vs no cause
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slevesque Member (Idle past 4667 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
Then your opinion has change since this:
There probably wasn't a first cause.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
We were talking about colliding branes. or first cause vs no cause Yeah I got that, but I don't think this negates my post. What is the "red herring" in reference to? - Oni
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nwr Member Posts: 6411 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
slevesque writes:
No. But I am wondering what you don't understand about "probably."
Then your opinion has change since this:
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3670 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
And there goes colliding branes out the window I guess. This isn't a "first cause". There are competing ideas for what happened at T=0. What is being shown is that in none of them is a "first cause" required, either at T=0, or at any point for T<0 exists.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 92 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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Numbers writes: OHHHHHH knOOOOooowwWW! Straggler's next thread. " Has Metaphysical claims failed" Well apparently any suggestion that things happen in the world without intervention from the supernatural is an unwarranted intrusion into metaphysics about which science can say nothing. So excuse me while God and I take a visit to the toilet where we shall be enjoying our latest creation.
"Metaphysics is a restaurant where they give you a thirty thousand page menu, and no food." Robert M. Pirsig
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3670 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined:
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So excuse me while God and I take a visit to the toilet where we shall be enjoying our latest creation. You owe me one monitor and one keyboard
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shalamabobbi Member (Idle past 2875 days) Posts: 397 Joined: |
If you decide to publish your thoughts I have the title..
Skid Marks on the Road to Damascus..
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3988 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
Straggler writes: Well apparently any suggestion that things happen in the world without intervention from the supernatural is an unwarranted intrusion into metaphysics about which science can say nothing. You'd be shocked at what God helped me do last night. Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given. Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?! -Gogol Bordello Real things always push back.-William James
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2321 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
I don't know how you confused Straggler with me, but I'm sure he'll be glad to come across as a tough guy,rather than a cricket garb wearing wanker.
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3670 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
I don't know how you confused Straggler with me, but I'm sure he'll be glad to come across as a tough guy Oh yes, we know all about the dutch tough guys...
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3988 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
Huntard writes: don't know how you confused Straggler with me I can't help it, I'm old. Or maybe I should insist that God did it.
but I'm sure he'll be glad to come across as a tough guy,rather than a cricket garb wearing wanker. Your reply was worth the error. I watched a cricket match in Inverness two summers ago: even more boring than baseball, but the clothes were about equally odd. Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?! -Gogol Bordello Real things always push back.-William James
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2321 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Quite an accurate portrayal! Bloody northerners.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
But that's not what I claimed. I claimed that the laws of physics are metaphysically simpler in a biblical perspective than in an atheistic perspective. That's rather cheating, don't you think? Aren't you essentially arguing that if we ignore this massive, complex, unproven thing that what's less is simpler? Isn't that rather like claiming that less people die of breast cancer than testicular cancer if you ignore all those women?
Consider an automobile. Why postulate a human designer and builder, which is much more complex than the automobile itself? Isn't it simpler to postulate that the automobile was self-caused? Well, gosh, might it be because we know about automobiles and know about how they are made, and can go look at the factories and talk to the designers?
The biblical, theistic picture of the universe is not simply the atheistic picture with God added to the picture. No, it isn't, it something massively less plausible.
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
kbertsche writes: Consider an automobile. Why postulate a human designer and builder, which is much more complex than the automobile itself? Isn't it simpler to postulate that the automobile was self-caused? Yes let's consider the automobile. Let's see, I find a plate that says Body by Fisher or Ghia or Bertone or Ital Design. I find patent numbers and part numbers and made by stamped on part after part. I find Ford and Chevy and Jaguar and Alfa Romeo and Fiat and Peugeot and Rover and I can bring the designers in, interview them and test them. I can look at the parts, say and engine and tell whether it was cast or machined, original or aftermarket, whether it has been modified. We can look at the product "automobile" tell that not only is it designed but different parts were designed by different people and that similar parts found in other automobiles were designed by yet other folk. In addition, as I pointed out way back in 2006 here:
quote: What we see in living things and in designed artifacts like automobiles is simply not the same. If when we looked at living things we found the same things we find in designed stuff like automobiles then it might be worth considering if living things were designed. But so far no evidence has come forward supporting living things being designed. Edited by jar, : change sub-title. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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