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Author Topic:   Murder by prayer: When is enough, enough?
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 271 of 284 (579616)
09-05-2010 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by archaeologist
09-05-2010 12:28 AM


Re: It's a simple enough fucking idea...
You didn't answer the question.
me writes:
What the F#$K do Atheists have to do with this rant?

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by archaeologist, posted 09-05-2010 12:28 AM archaeologist has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 272 of 284 (579628)
09-05-2010 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by archaeologist
09-05-2010 6:58 AM


really do not care, the question i snot germane to the issue being discussed.
It's germane to your efforts to blame an outcome you don't like on atheists. The jury, the prosecutors office, the police, the legislature, et cetera, were undoubtedly overwhelmingly theists --- just theists with different opinions from you.
still doesn't mean they neglected the medical needs of the child or that their request went unanswered.
It means exactly that their request went unanswered, since the child (a) died and (b) did not rise from the dead.
there are limitations on that but as usual you skip those parts.
Feel free to quote them.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by archaeologist, posted 09-05-2010 6:58 AM archaeologist has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 273 of 284 (579639)
09-05-2010 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by archaeologist
09-05-2010 12:24 AM


retarded people are just that retarded, some thing has slowed their thinking ability and developement but if you are going to get upset over little things like that then i have no respect for you at all.
You have been told that the term is offensive and yet you still continue to use it. It is not a little thing, it is a derogatory term like nigger. But I see you like to preach about your god, but have no respect for the feelings of others.
Please explain how you used the word retard about his comment in the definitions you provided.
Not only are your morals questionable, you are a liar also.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by archaeologist, posted 09-05-2010 12:24 AM archaeologist has not replied

  
archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 274 of 284 (579691)
09-05-2010 5:02 PM


i amlooking atthese recent replies and i see nothing germane to the toppic but all personal attacks, dishonest postings, and off topic comments. nothing that builds a constructive discussion.
for those who need to grow a set, the condition of their family members do not dictate what words i can or cannot use. hiding behind children is a cowardly act, depicted brilliantly by martin sheen, and shows that the atheist will force their ways upon others all the while criticizing christians for alledgedly doing the same.
if you do not want christianity then you cannot force others to do what you want them to do which means you cannot dictate what another person says, you cannot force religious people to medical institutions, you cannot prosecute them and condemn them for things they did not use.
if one does not like the word 'retarded' too bad. it is NOT offensive where i come from nor live. it is a descriptive word that was used on a comment not another human being, just grow up.
atheists think they rule the world, they don't. they are deceived and need Jesus. repent while you can. i am done withthis thread unless huntard continues the discussion.
the parents di dnothing wrong and should not have been prosecuted. atheists need to learn to mind their own business because their families are far worse than christian ones.
death by faith healing is rare, far rarer than the precious medical care touted by atheists. get yourown house inorder before attscking religious people, just because you have cosen to deny the truth doesn't mean religious people have to follow suit.
Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given.
Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by bluescat48, posted 09-05-2010 6:23 PM archaeologist has not replied
 Message 276 by hooah212002, posted 09-05-2010 7:11 PM archaeologist has not replied
 Message 279 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-05-2010 8:23 PM archaeologist has not replied
 Message 281 by Nij, posted 09-05-2010 9:25 PM archaeologist has not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 275 of 284 (579703)
09-05-2010 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by archaeologist
09-05-2010 5:02 PM


From reading your various rants in this and other topics, it appears that all people who don't adhere to your narrow-mined cult are atheists. In one sense they probably are, atheist to your interpretation of the god you created.
the parents di dnothing wrong and should not have been prosecuted. atheists need to learn to mind their own business because their families are far worse than christian ones.
What atheists. Did atheists write the law that they were charged with? Were the arresting officers atheists? Was the court system that charged them atheists?

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by archaeologist, posted 09-05-2010 5:02 PM archaeologist has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 276 of 284 (579716)
09-05-2010 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by archaeologist
09-05-2010 5:02 PM


the parents di dnothing wrong and should not have been prosecuted. atheists need to learn to mind their own business because their families are far worse than christian ones.
Name ONE case where a parent's lack of belief in a deity can be DIRECTLY correlated to their child dying. Just ONE case. DIRECTLY related.

Your god believes in Unicorns

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by archaeologist, posted 09-05-2010 5:02 PM archaeologist has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-05-2010 8:16 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 277 of 284 (579732)
09-05-2010 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by hooah212002
09-05-2010 7:11 PM


Name ONE case where a parent's lack of belief in a deity can be DIRECTLY correlated to their child dying. Just ONE case. DIRECTLY related.
Easy. Jews don't believe that Jesus is a deity. Which led to their children being murdered in pogroms.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by hooah212002, posted 09-05-2010 7:11 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Coragyps, posted 09-05-2010 8:22 PM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 280 by hooah212002, posted 09-05-2010 8:29 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 278 of 284 (579735)
09-05-2010 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Dr Adequate
09-05-2010 8:16 PM


Murdered by Christians, Arch. In case you missed that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-05-2010 8:16 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 279 of 284 (579736)
09-05-2010 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by archaeologist
09-05-2010 5:02 PM


atheists think they rule the world, they don't.
We know we don't rule the world.
We've been trying, with little success, to convince you that we don't even rule Wisconsin.
atheists need to learn to mind their own business because their families are far worse than christian ones.
Hmm, let me check again.
No, I still haven't let children in my care die of neglect.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by archaeologist, posted 09-05-2010 5:02 PM archaeologist has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 280 of 284 (579738)
09-05-2010 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Dr Adequate
09-05-2010 8:16 PM


I only said "lack of belief in a deity" to identify atheists (since arch has no idea what atheism is or atheists are). I didn't mean lack of a belief in a particular deity but belief in another. Jews are hardly atheists.

Your god believes in Unicorns

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-05-2010 8:16 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Nij
Member (Idle past 4890 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 281 of 284 (579746)
09-05-2010 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by archaeologist
09-05-2010 5:02 PM


And more waiting...
quote:
i amlooking atthese recent replies and i see nothing germane to the toppic but all personal attacks, dishonest postings, and off topic comments. nothing that builds a constructive discussion.
You must have missed message 265:
Can the parents do whatever they like or not? Does the child have rights or not?
and message 268:
Do children have rights, or not?
Can parents do whatever they like, or not?
because I note you still haven't answered either question in any of thre supposed responses. All I wanted was a single word for just one of those questions. Why can't you do that simple task?


And much of the rest of that message is full of trashtalking and nonsense. Yes, we know you don't like atheism, we know you tihnk there's a giant conspiracy, we know you think [your brand of] Christianity is perfect. How about you actually discuss something new for a change?
Edited by Nij, : Fix coding of URL, quotebox.
Add phrase to complete sentence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by archaeologist, posted 09-05-2010 5:02 PM archaeologist has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 282 of 284 (580104)
09-07-2010 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by archaeologist
09-03-2010 5:47 PM


Re: The Quality of Outrage
Looks like you guys have been pretty busy.
Sorry, did not mean to abandon my own thread. I have been pretty busy with work.
I see Archy has jumped right in and made himself home. I'll just add my two cents.
Archy writes:
yet children's rights are limited and are under the care of the parent
Since it seems that you think that parents hold absolute rights over the life and death of their child, I have a few questions:
Do these absolute rights of parents include being able to starve a child to death? Rape a child? Physically abusing a child? Withholding medical care to a child?
Are there limits of what parents can do to their children? When can other people step in and remove a child from a dangerous situation caused by their parent(s), if ever?
This should put it in perspective:
Religion: Oregon orders state custody for the child of Christian faith healers writes:
In Oregon city a judge has ruled that a couple belonging to a faith healing church must surrender their child to the state for failing to provide medical care.
Thursday, Clackamas County Circuit Judge Douglas V. Van Dyk gave the state temporary custody of the child and ordered medical treatment as directed by doctors at Oregon Health & Science University.
The parents, Timothy J. Wyland, 44, and Rebecca J. Wyland, 23, of Beavercreek Oregon, appeared in court without an attorney. The age, condition and identity of the child was not released. The couple are members of the Followers of Christ church.
The 1,200-member Followers of Christ church rejects modern medicine for the treatment of illnesses and disease. Instead, the church teaches members to rely on faith-healing rituals such as the laying on of hands, anointing with oil, prayer and fasting.
The church is no stranger to media attention. Members of the congregation have made a habit of watching their children die rather than seek medical attention.
Last February Jeffrey and Marci Beagley were found guilty for the criminally negligent homicide of their 16-year-old son, Neil. Instead of seeking medical attention for an easily treatable condition, the Beagley's chose prayer, with tragic and fatal consequence for their son.
Four months prior to Neil's death, his young cousin also died at home because her parents, Carl and Raylene Worthington, following the teachings of the church, refused to get her medical attention.
The Followers of Christ church cemetery is filled with dead children who died from treatable medical conditions. The Oregon state medical examiner's office reported that during the past 30 years more than 20 children of church members had died of preventable or curable illnesses.
The state of Oregon, and Judge Van Dyk, should be applauded. While it would have been preferable for the state to intervene earlier, better late than never. History has made clear that this church is hazardous to the health, particularly if you happen to be a child. Children should never be made to suffer for the ignorant religious superstitions of their parents
This is not an attack on the Christian faith. This is a condemnation of extreme and cruel superstition which has led to the needless death of innocent children.
Your idiotic rants about people dying in hospitals is not just ridiculous it borders, no it is absolutely lunacy. Of course people die in hospitals. Why? Because usually the most extreme of diseases and injuries are treated in hospitals. There is a reason life expectancy has risen from the average of 28 during ancient Greece to 45 in the early 20th century and now to 68 today. Modern medicine and science are what caused this, not faith healing.
Here is just one of thousands of examples of the success of modern medicine. Milary Tuberculosis, if left untreated (by modern medicine) results in a fatality rate of nearly 100% However if treated early the fatality rate is reduced to 10%. That is a ten-fold reduction in deaths as a result of early detection and medical treatment of just one disease. There are countless more diseases that have been eradicated or reduced to near insignificance as a result of modern medical research, care and vaccination: small pox killed literally 300-500 million people in the 20th century before vacinnations in the 20th century resulted in its absolute erradication; reduction of Poliomyelitis (polio) from millions of cases to less than 2000 annually; Malaria has been reduced and eliminated in the majority of affected countries; other disease whose fatality rates have been drastically reduced are measles, rubella and many others.
Modern medicine and vaccinations have literally resulted in saving the needless deaths and suffering of billions of men, women and children on this planet.
Your lack of empathy, sympathy or even a shred of compassion is extremely disturbing and I find this repulsive and disgusting. Thank God for modern science and medicine.
Faith healing is NOT denying medical care, it is practicing a different kind of treatment and is not neglect, abuse or whatever, noris it against the law. the state cannot interfere with parental rights.
After over 281 posts you still can not provide a single confirmed and verifiable instance of faith healing. Not one. All you provide are fabricated ancedotes with absolutely zero emperical evidence supporting faith healing.
You care more about the 'rights' of parents to MURDER their children than you do of the CHILD right to live? I really don't understand you? You advocate protecting the rights of unborne children to live (which I also advocate), and then in the same breath advocate a parents right to MURDER their own child. Can you say cognative dissonance? Or should I just say, outright fucking lunacy.
Your worldview reminds me of this little story I remember seeing on the movie "Pursuit of Happiness":
It had been raining for days and days, and a terrible flood had come over the land. The waters rose so high that one man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.
As the waters rose higher and higher, a man in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the rowboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.
The waters rose higher and higher, and suddenly a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" shouted a man in the boat. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the speedboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.
The waters continued to rise. A helicopter appeared and over the loudspeaker, the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the helicopter went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.
The waters rose higher and higher, and eventually they rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, the poor man drowned.
Upon arriving in heaven, the man marched straight over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?" God gave him a puzzled look, and replied "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by archaeologist, posted 09-03-2010 5:47 PM archaeologist has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by menes777, posted 09-28-2010 5:38 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
menes777
Member (Idle past 4319 days)
Posts: 36
From: Wichita, KS, USA
Joined: 01-25-2010


Message 283 of 284 (583736)
09-28-2010 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by DevilsAdvocate
09-07-2010 6:50 PM


God doesn't heal amputees
This thread reminds me of this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH0rFZIqo8A

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-07-2010 6:50 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

Replies to this message:
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saab93f
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 284 of 284 (585300)
10-07-2010 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 283 by menes777
09-28-2010 5:38 PM


Re: God doesn't heal amputees
And why would any deity make peeps like Jesus heal a blind man when he could cure blindness
Ive been reading this post and Ive just gotten sad and angry. A totally avoidable tragedy - no matter how hard I might try (I admit that I wont) to understand those parents actions, I just cannot.
Did any of you remind Archy that in this world we live in there are no boogiemen nor gods

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by menes777, posted 09-28-2010 5:38 PM menes777 has not replied

  
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