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Author | Topic: Castle Doctrine | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
crashfrog writes:
Um... nobody here has suggested "sweeping disarmament". ringo writes:
Hardly anybody ever has to. I don't understand how that could possibly justify sweeping disarmament. I've lived here for nearly 50 years, a few blocks from one of the highest crime areas in Canada, and I've never once been "called upon" to defend my life. And should I take "hardly anybody ever has to" as an admission that your claim of thousands of home invasions in Canada is bullshit?
crashfrog writes:
As I mentioned earlier, we pay professionals to do that. I've also put literally zero thought into how to do surgery on myself. I do think tactically about how to avoid hitting deer on the highway because I'm much more likely to get killed that way. You've never once in your life thought tactically, have you? I mean it's obvious you've put literally zero thought into how you might resist violent predation by a criminal. Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I've also put literally zero thought into how to do surgery on myself. Hrm, that was one of the lessons in the wilderness survival course I took in college... Maybe you should reconsider. Or just stay out of the woods, city-boy Which you could do, as opposed to doing 'not getting your house broke into'. I think its worth considering and trying to be prepared.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
As I already said, I am prepared. I lock my doors. I think its worth considering and trying to be prepared.
quote: Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
ringo writes: I've lived here for nearly 50 years, a few blocks from one of the highest crime areas in Canada, and I've never once been "called upon" to defend my life. I've never met anybody who has. Either the danger is much greater in the U.S. or you guys are blowing it up out of all proportion. I can't imagine that Stubblejump would have one of the highest crime areas in Canada. I went to high school not too far down the road in "the Hat" and we didn't even lock our doors normally. That was a few decades ago however. However, I agree with you on the gun thing. I would contend that there are far more lives lost by the misuse of guns, than there are lives saved because someone was able to defend themselves with one.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I would object to the castle doctrine even in places where guns aren’t commonly owned or even banned. Which would suggest that you just don't want people defending themselves... but:
No. I want people to be able to defend themselves without thinking they can carry out their Dirty Harry fantasies in the process. Reasonable forceProportionate response Etc. Using a gun is reasonable force and proportionate response to someone who has broken into your house.
So you think it important that the castle doctrine law be qualified in terms of what acts it allows home owners to undertake without legal consequence by the addition of misconduct as a limiting factor. But you actually have no idea (to quote you) what constitutes misconduct. Well, I have ideas... but yes. And a lot of laws are like that. This one is no different.
So the sort of objections being raised here by opponents of the law based on your own description of the law (i.e. that it allows home owners to kill people simply on the basis of claiming to believe that someone on their property is going to commit a minor felony) may well be perfectly valid. Despite your attempts to laugh off these objections as obviously stupid you actually have no idea whether they are misplaced or not. They might be, but it hasn't been shown to me that they are.
All of which means that you have a priori decided that this law is a good law without actually knowing whether or not the qualifiers that you yourself describe as important to make it such, are in place or not. They're "in place" as they're written into the law. I'm not a lawyer.
I guess that is the problem with taking an ideological pre-defined position on a law without actually having any idea what it is you are talking about. Wait, what exactly was your problem with "My Plan"? You said the "Crux of the issue" was basing it on my belief, but what else I am supposed to base it on in a case of self defense?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
As I already said, I am prepared. I lock my doors. So do I, but locks are for honest people. They ain't gonna prevent somebody from breaking into your house. That's just naivity.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
However, I agree with you on the gun thing. I would contend that there are far more lives lost by the misuse of guns, than there are lives saved because someone was able to defend themselves with one. How do you calculate the lives saved?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
*shrug* Check Wikipedia if you don't believe me. I can't imagine that Stubblejump would have one of the highest crime areas in Canada. Yes, it is surprising because it's really very safe here - and I live two blocks from the wrong side of the tracks. ------------- ABE: I just had to post this to show what a joke country Canada can be: Bikers who hang out at Tim Hortons can't be all bad. Edited by ringo, : Added link. Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
Yep, they are. ringo writes:
So do I, but locks are for honest people. They ain't gonna prevent somebody from breaking into your house. As I already said, I am prepared. I lock my doors. (I did say upthread that I had been burgled. Maybe I should have said "attempted burgled" because they didn't get past my locks.) Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Catholic Scientist writes: How do you calculate the lives saved? Sorry if it came across as anything more than my opinion.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
And should I take "hardly anybody ever has to" as an admission that your claim of thousands of home invasions in Canada is bullshit? No, not every B&E is a life-or-death scenario. Most burglars want to hit you when you're not home. According to the Canada Centre for Justice Statistics, there are 25 home invasions per 100,000 people every year (it's pretty stable.) That's over 8000 home invasion crimes annually. And, of course, we're not just talking about home invasions but any kind of threat to one's person.
As I mentioned earlier, we pay professionals to do that. To follow you around and be prepared to protect your person at a moment's notice? Canadian health care is famously generous (by US standards) but I doubt it extends to personal bodyguards for every citizen. Oh, maybe you were talking about police? Unfortunately you don't pay police for that - according to court rulings in both of our countries police have no constitutional duty to protect individuals from harm.
quote: Neither in the US nor in Canada can you reasonably rely on the police for your protection, as they have no constitutional duty to come to your aid or protect you. You yourself are both the first and last line of defense in any personal conflict.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Sorry if it came across as anything more than my opinion. Sorry if it came across as anything more than a question... but it does leave me wondering where your proclaimed contention is going to be
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1496 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I lock my doors. You ever heard of lock-bumping?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Yep, they are. Nope, they aren't. Now what?
(I did say upthread that I had been burgled. Maybe I should have said "attempted burgled" because they didn't get past my locks.) Good thing the burglar was honest enough to stop at the lock and not actually break in...
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
crashfrog writes:
That would be 50 home invasions per year in my town, almost one per week. Frankly, I find that number ludicrous, unless you're using a very loose definition of "home invasion". The one I'm using is something like "the act of burglarizing a private and occupied dwelling for the purpose of committing a violent crime (such as robbery, assault, rape or murder) against the occupant(s)." wiki According to the Canada Centre for Justice Statistics, there are 25 home invasions per 100,000 people every year (it's pretty stable.) That's over 8000 home invasion crimes annually. My estimate would be close to none.
crashfrog writes:
And as I've said before, I've been doing that quite nicely for decades without a gun. So has everybody else I know. You yourself are both the first and last line of defense in any personal conflict. Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
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