Summations Only

What's your possible basis for this statement? As I've said, the largest obstacle police overcome in their training is their natural reticence to pull the trigger on a human target. To me, that makes it pretty obvious indeed that the average untrained (but proficient) shooter is going to err on the side of not shooting people.I think the statistics pretty clearly bear that out. The sign of the gunshot from the victim was that a gun went off, there was something gun-sized in his hand, and one of the police stumbled as if he'd been hit. You're asking police officers to evince a superhuman ability to make perfect observations of their surroundings as split-second events unfold. I'm not denying that our society's appointed violence-doers should meet a pretty high standard of ability and judgement, but asking them to think faster than a human is capable of, and to second-guess the situation as they're being fired upon is just too much. Nobody panicked, ringo. Amadou Diallo was resisting arrest and one of the officers tripped and just as he did, reflexively squeezed the trigger. The officers behind him saw only a muzzle flash and their buddy go down; based on the information they had they were right to conclude that Diallo was firing on them. They opened fire just as that situation would warrant. Tragically, he wasn't.There's absolutely no evidence at all that anybody panicked; officers are trained to fire at suspects who are firing on them, and from their perspective, that's what they saw. Right. Take away the training and you have someone who hesitates to fire when drawing down on a human. Take away the training and you have someone who flees trouble, not runs towards it. Take away the training and you have someone who freezes up in the face of direct fire, instead of returning it. Take away the training and you have someone who hits a man-sized target 10 feet away once out of every 20 rounds, not once out of 8 (the average for FBI-trained shooters in live-fire situations.)In other words, take away the training and you have exactly the opposite of a trigger-happy gun nut; the primary focus of officer training is to increase, not decrease, the likelihood that they'll open fire on a human being.

They're two different countries with radically different social welfare systems, so I don't see how they can be compared. The best comparisons are between the same area as its gun laws become more or less restrictive, and in the United States its clear that when concealed-carry laws are enacted violent crime rates are decreased. Right, exactly. Contra ringo burglars respond to increasing difficulty and risk of burglary by burgling less. Robberies had dramatically increased from 1986-1992, so perhaps it was simply regression to the mean.

That makes no sense at all. Stealth would be an advantage vs. an armed defender. Which they may do anyway, to eliminate a witness. The only person who can decide whether someone should capitulate to an attacker or try to resist is the person in that situation; it's stupid to cut off defensive options from the outset. They happen and you're either purposefully unaware of them, or you're flat-out lying to me?

36/50 states have it. Unfortunately the commonwealth of Virginia does not, but I would just have to take my chances in court, and I would. I am not sure of any firearm owner that I know who would retreat his home if it was intruded into, so I think that is how it is. plus i only have one door, and i am not jumping off the 5th floor.Florida is a pretty decent state for gun laws, what would you do? Hmm that is tricky. I wade in the creeks, so I wouldn’t have a boat or kayak, and where I fish in the Potomac river (between Harpers Ferry and Point of Rocks), I have capsized the kayak before (I still think I had to much to drink that day), but the water is maybe 5ft deep in the deep spots. Hmm lets say I had to go to shore for something, I would go to the north shore (Maryland), where it’s a crazy blue state and guns are practically illegal, rather than the south shore (Virginia). And after September I always have some Blaze-Orange on. This person probably means nothing to you, but oh well, I tend to agree with him. 36/50 states do. That is 72% of the states.
What in your opinion constitutes many? Because 72% of states do, which is almost a majority. I would say most US states have adopted it. Well said. Well I am an experienced shooter. I shoot competitively 1/month, and practice every week.
Here is an example No YouTube URL Provided https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEBdXZKiLz0[/youtube] of a stage at a competitive event.
America, fuck yeah. An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. -- Robert A. Heinlein Is this a joke? Are you being serious?
Either you no little of criminals, or little about guns, or both. Most criminals get their guns through straw purchases, and by stealing them. They are not going to bring bigger guns when they break in to steal a microwave (because they have to carry the microwave out), now if they are assassins or something then maybe, but how often does that happen? It is far more easy for a law abiding citizen to obtain a big gun for defense than it would be for a criminal to get one and carry it around. Lol you were being serious. Just please stop, lol. I don’t want to have to educate you on gang stuff as well as gun stuff, one thread at a time. Gangbangers defend their hood, they may break in somewhere, but they aint in my neighborhood, the popo would be on them before they found my residence, and they usually carry small pocket guns in .22, .25, and .32 calibers. If you think they all got AKs you been listening to too many studio ganstas. Sheesh!

I know you've said that but repetition doesn't make it true. The four officers managed to overcome that reticence 41 times. Nonsense. You don't see that kind of thing even when there's a real gun. (Do you? Because we don't.) Forty-one shots and twenty-two misses? We had a similar situation locally and the police only fired two shots. You seem to be making my point. Civilians with guns aren't much of a threat to criminals.

---

Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

I haven't said a word about cutting off defensive options. As I've mentioned and you keep ignoring, most Canadians just don't seem to have any interest in firearms for home defense. Feel free to roll out the statistics for violent home invasions in Saskatchewan. I'll be surprised if there's a significant number but frankly, I still won't be afraid of them.

---

Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

You seem to have missed the plot somewhere. I'm not the one who's banging on about safety. I'm the one who already feels safe and I don't have a gun. And I always heard that Canadians were the polite ones.

---

Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

Right, because they had been trained to overcome their reticence.How are you not following this, Ringo? Normal people exhibit reticence when it comes to firing on other people. This was discovered in World War II when inspection of the rifles of the fallen soldiers at Normandy revealed that around only 20% of soldiers had fired their weapon even once. In response the army began training soldiers to shoot at human-silhouette targets instead of round bulls-eyes; the result was that by the Korean war 55% of soldiers were firing on the enemy.Police train with human silhouette targets as well, and the intent of that is to overcome the natural human reticence to open fire on another person. I don't understand how you can possibly doubt that. Wouldn't you hesitate to open fire on a living human being? Even if you thought your life might depend on it? I'm sure I would hesitate. Why is it so hard for you to believe that's a natural human reaction? Yeah, that's about right. In a live-fire crisis situation it's not uncommon for an anxious shooter to empty a clip or revolver in a space of seconds and click the hammer dozens of times on an empty chamber before they even notice. Firing a weapon accurately is incredibly difficult when your heart is racing and your muscles are twitching from adrenaline, and police are trained to put rounds downrange, not act like snipers. FBI estimates are that the average FBI-trained shooter (which is the program most police departments emulate) hit their intended target roughly one out of eight rounds fired. One out of two hits in this case is likely the result of the close range.During the famous North Hollywood bank robbery shootout, more than 1700 rounds were fired by police and the two assailants. The only two deaths were the perpetrators, who had fired over a thousand rounds at police; twelve police and seven civilians were injured. Criminals frequently aren't any better trained, and I believe that people who own firearms should train with them, for their own safety and the safety of those downrange. Inaccurate shooting is dangerous shooting.

I'm not ignoring anything. You keep repeating that but I'm not sure why I'm supposed to find it significant. Can you elaborate? Your mind won't be changed by any evidence. Fair enough.

I didn't say I doubt that. I doubt that 41 shots indicates reticence. It seems more like panic.Again, local police took down an armed suspect with two shots. Exactly. They try to train that out of the police. And the police didn't accomplish that by emptying their magazines downrange, did they? That's what I'm saying. Poorly trained civilians in a firefight against poorly-trained criminals is no good for anybody.

---

Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

I didn't say I would deny your evidence or even doubt it. I said I wouldn't be afraid of home invasions even if you showed that there were a lot of them. I do note that you haven't shown one shred of evidence for your claim:

---

Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

I can't say much about all Canadians, but those I have met from Sault Ste. Marie, Ottowa, and Atikokan (Ontario-ians), were no more polite than anyone else, actually the Sault Ste. Marie crowd was the opposite of polite.In Saskatchewan, I bet many of the home intruders are bears, and other dangerous wildlife (puma, elk, bison, coyote, wolves, etc.), are you telling me that Canadians just hide and call the cops if bears are about? or would they grab a slug-gun, or maybe even a 30-06?

>.<Do you understand what I'm trying to tell you, Ringo? How can you not be getting this, yet? Yes, obviously 41 shots doesn't indicate reticence - the police are trained not to be reticent.Jesus, how many times do I have to lay that out there? I'm pretty sure I'm using plain English. How can you keep arriving at the exact opposite impression of what I'm trying to tell you? Two hits, but I doubt that was all the ammunition used. Again, no, they don't. They try to train that into police, they train police to overcome the natural reticence of a human being to fire on another living person and put rounds downrange. Um, yes, that's exactly how they accomplished that; that's how the police were able to fire well over 600 rounds of ammunition in the space of about twenty minutes, primarily from handguns and pump shotguns. Yes. Civilians who wish to use firearms to defend themselves should train with them. I'm pretty sure I just said that. They speak English up there in Buttfuck-Egypt, right?

Farmers would grab a 30-06. That's what they have them for. Here in the city (200,000 pop.) we have had bears, moose, etc. on occasion. Yes, we do call the police, for two reasons:

1. Few people have guns in their homes, as I have mentioned.
2. It would be illegal for a civilian to discharge a weapon under those circumstances.

---

Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

I know what you're telling me. It's wrong. 41 shots doesn't indicate that they "overcame their reticence". It indicates that they panicked. Two shots. (The suspect also fired one.) I don't know if both of them were hits. The suspect survived. So, thirty rounds per minute, from how many officers? Thank you.

---

Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.