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Author | Topic: how exactly does Israel stabilize the Middle East and why do we need Israel? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Huntard Member (Idle past 2516 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Of course, when a Palestinian blows up a bus, he makes sure there aren't any women and children in it first, just soldiers.
Yes, Israel did some pretty bad stuff, but the Palestinians aren't a happy happy bunch either.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2516 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
dronester writes:
Oh, I'd like to consider myself "enlightened" , as you put it.
C'mon Huntard, I thought you became enlightened about all this stuff. Yes, the Muslem terrorists do target women and children and it is wrong. But . . .
Yes, like I said, Israel does some pretty bad stuff, I just wanted to point out that it's not so easy as to point the finger to one party. Both are in the wrong here, maybe one is more wrong than the other, but it takes two to tango.
What side (Israel or Palestine) CONTROLS movement, food, employment, water, health, security, human rights, to the point of life or death? BTW, I read the Dutch are removing Afghan troups due to public pressure. Hooray for the Dutch!!!
That's not the case however. The reason we're removing from Afghanistan, is because one party of our then coalition government stepped out of the government because they didn't feel comfortable about making a decision to prolong our stay a bit. This meant no official stance could be taken by our government on the issue one way or another (for some reason they're fucking slow with writing out new elections here), and this led to an adherence to a previously made deal that we would depart on 01-08-10. Yes, there was a lot of pressure from the populace, but that was not the reason we went home, it was not a decision made, it was a bureaucratic thing. I'll see how this plays out for the local populace. But giving your dislike of America, you might be interested to know, that due to our leaving, the people we looked over are now in the hands of the Americans and Australians.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2516 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
onifre writes:
If not wanting to dance is blowing up busses with civilians, then I don;t know what is.
But in this case, it would be the same as saying black people tango'd with police during the civil rights movement. It took two to tango in their case too, but you can see how one side didn't really want to dance. Israel (and the parties that aided) occupied land that they had no rights to.
True.
That is a very strong case for resisting on the part of the Palestinians don't you think?
Perhaps, but there are many ways of resistance.
So everything that has occured since that day (occupation) is in regards to the initial invasion/occupation by force.
I still say blowing up busses with civilians in them isn't a productive way of reaching an understanding.
{ABE}: I will shut up now, as this has nothing to do with the topic. Edited by Huntard, : Added {ABE} bit
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2516 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
jar writes:
And from Buz's standpoint, I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks we need Israel pertaining to the end times. After all, without Israel, this is supposedly not possible.
The claim was made, by Buz not by me, that the US needs Israel. My question is "Why do we need Israel?" Some answers to that have been provided. The best reason given so far has been that the US needs Israel to act as a surrogate threat so that the US does not appear to be the bad guy.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2516 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
dronester writes:
You mean like this:
I don' know how to link other messages, but have a read: Message 15 Use the number (in this case 523390) that goes with the message and use the [mid=(number here)] dBcode. I've read the post (well skimmed it a bit, there's always so much to read in RAZD's posts), and I msut say I pretty much agree with everything I've read there.
I think it one of the better summaries on the Israel-Palestine conflict. Kudos RAZD.
Yes, as usual, a pretty good post by RAZD.
If Buzz continues to be absent on this thread, maybe we can re-activate the other one if you have further thoughts as this specific topic is off-topic per Jar's request.
We could, but bear in mind that I do not have a pro-Israel stance, they do horrible things. My only thing in this thread was preventing a too one sided perspective being raised.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2516 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
jar writes:
Yeah, he needs to substantiate it more. I wouldn't count on anything productive, really.
Well, until Buz shows up and explains why he thinks the US needs Israel I guess we won't know. So far his only attempt to explain his position was to provide a link to a news article from Binyamin Netanyahu. Of course, since Mr Netanyahu is the current Israeli Prim Minister that doesn't answer the question but might show why Israel needs the US. I wonder if Buz understands that the Israeli Prime Minister represents Israel's interests, not the US's interests.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2516 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Wouldn't god be able to protect them himself just fine? He did so in the past.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2516 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
Well, hate to say I told you all so, but in Message 34 I did say:
You've got that wrong NWR. What most evangelicals believe is that the age of Gentile rule so far as world class empires is over at Armageddon at and near Jerusalem. That is when Jesus, messiah returns to rule the world for a thousand years. The planet and it's weather, terrain and atmosphere will be much like the pre-flood super climate where again humans will live much longer. Satan will be chained in a place called the bottomless pit and the weapons will be beat into plowshares, etc. So in answer to Jar's thread question, Israel will indeed be the greatest stability to not only the Mid East, but to the entire planet. Huntard writes:
And from Buz's standpoint, I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks we need Israel pertaining to the end times. After all, without Israel, this is supposedly not possible. SO yeah, he does think that.
I know it all sounds undoable, but climate change, Mid East events, particularly the restoration of Israel the emergence of Islam and global government all attest to the veracity of the prophecies, both OT and NT. It all is indeed coming to frution and moving along astonishingly rapidly.
No it isn't, it won't happen within your lifetime, nor will it happen in mine, nor will it happen at any time.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2516 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined:
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Buzsaw writes:
I will remember those words when I sip my Interstellar Martini on Luna Beach 1. And I will laugh. hard.
Prepare yourself and hang onto your hat, Huntard. Make your peace with God by receiving his son, Jesus, messiah as saviour and lord/master. It's been escalating for the last century and will escalate more rapidly into fruition within, I say within, 50 years; more likely sooner than later!
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2516 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Coyote writes:
Really? Why would we need Israel for us to never persecute Jews again, can't we just, you know, not do it again?
Israel means that it may, hopefully, not happen again.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2516 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Dr Adequate writes:
Yes. But isn't that what it comes down to anyway? I mean, if you really wanted to persecute the Jews, them having their own nation isn't gonna stop you, now is it? It'll make it a lot harder, sure, but ultimately, not persecuting the Jews is only possible when you just stop doing it.
Couldn't you say that about any proposed remedy to any evil?
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2516 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Dr Adequate writes:
True.
And if you really wanted to commit murder, the law wouldn't stop you. But that's not a satisfactory argument against having penalties for murder. But unsuccessfully persecuting the Jews is possible when they can kick your ass into the middle of next week whether you try to persecute them or not.
Also true. I guess I'm just too optimistic again, thinking people can be reasonable and not hate each other. Ah well, until that glorious day arrives, I guess having a state is the next best thing.
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