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Author Topic:   I need an answer
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 6 of 58 (565669)
06-18-2010 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Kitsune
06-18-2010 8:32 AM


Am I right in understanding that you're 12?
I don't think so. He says he's a "child of twelve years of catholic school", not "a child of twelve years, at a catholic school". I therefore take "child" in its metaphorical sense of "product of" and "twelve years" to say how long he went to a catholic school, not how old he is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Kitsune, posted 06-18-2010 8:32 AM Kitsune has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Kitsune, posted 06-19-2010 3:39 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 19 of 58 (566066)
06-22-2010 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by RyanVanGo
06-22-2010 1:25 PM


Re: Thanks for the reply
If you are still a Catholic (as your reference later in this post to seeing a priest rather than a pastor or minister suggests), then you might consider what the late Pope John Paul II had to say about evolution:
Today, almost half a century after the publication of the Encyclical (NB: he is referring here to the encyclical Humani generis of Pope Pius XII), fresh knowledge has led to the recognition that evolution is more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory.
I don't see that any Catholic is obliged to be more hard-line on this subject than the Pope.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by RyanVanGo, posted 06-22-2010 1:25 PM RyanVanGo has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 24 of 58 (566709)
06-26-2010 3:54 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by RyanVanGo
06-26-2010 3:12 AM


Re: I've Come To A Conclusion
I know this is starting to sound silly, it's hard to make this point to both sides at once. but as a creationist if i say "well no your theories on evolution and speed of light in the astronomical and carbon dating are all seeds of doubt planted by Satan" an evolutionist would counter "no you can't use the supernatural to explain something you can't" well you can, because the evolutionist doesn't know the supernatural doesn't exist, we can't test for the existence of God or Satan. you can't. so logically, from a logical standpoint, if you can't prove that something does not exist, you don't have to accept that it does, but, to me at least, you have to accept that there is a REMOTE possibility. yes you have evidence pointing to a world from chaos, billions of years ago, but if the creationist view of "that evidence was placed here, Satan framed you" is admitted, yes your using what may seem like "magic and spells" but it kind of holds up.
And of course this sort of philosophical doubt can be applied to anything. Maybe I have three legs but Satan keeps fooling me into counting them wrong. Maybe the Bible that creationists keep pointing to doesn't even exist, it's just one of Satan's illusions to distract people from the matchless truth of Allah.
This sort of reasoning gives you room to be agnostic about the age of the Earth, but not particularly more agnostic about that than about any other proposition.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 29 of 58 (566719)
06-26-2010 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by zoetherat
06-26-2010 6:21 AM


Re: I've Come To A Conclusion
Traditionally, atheist is defined this way-
Atheist- doesn’t believe in God
Agnostic- not sure
Theist- believes in God
He said "agnostic", not "an agnostic". To say that one is an agnostic implies that the subject of one's agnosticism is the existence of God, but you can be agnostic about anything.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 32 of 58 (566758)
06-26-2010 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by RyanVanGo
06-26-2010 3:31 PM


Re: i understand
however, i am basing my belief that there IS a god who did these things based on evidence, albeit very little. The fact is that since man was able to think outside of the monkey mindset we have worship deities. why would this happen with no reason at all? I'm sure there are a few hypotheses as to why, but I'm taking it as evidence that there must have been witness of this, at some point and has been notably more refined as time goes on.
If by "these things" you mean some sort of fiat creation as in the Book of Genesis, then it is worth pointing out that these "witnesses" conflict in just about every detail (just as would the "witnesses" to the Emperor's New Clothes).
Here, for example, is a Japanese creation myth:
Of old, Heaven and Earth were not yet separated, and the In and Yo not yet divided. They formed a chaotic mass like an egg which was of obscurely defined limits and contained germs. The purer and clearer part was thinly drawn out, and formed Heaven, while the heavier and grosser element settled down and became Earth. The finer element easily became a united body, but the consolidation of the heavy and gross element was accomplished with difficulty. Heaven was therefore formed first, and Earth was established subsequently. Thereafter divine beings were produced between them.
Hence it is said that when the world began to be created, the soil of which lands were composed floated about in a manner which might be compared to the floating of a fish sporting on the surface of the water.
At this time a certain thing was produced between Heaven and Earth. It was in form like a reed-shoot. Now this became transformed into a God, and was called Kuni-toko-tachi no Mikoto. Next there was Kuni no sa-tsuchi no Mikoto, and next Toyo-kumu-nu no Mikoto, in all three deities. These were pure males spontaneously developed by the operation of the principle of Heaven.
Note that it includes an account of the origin of deities.
And here's a Norse version:
Gangleri asked: "How were things wrought, ere the races were and the tribes of men increased?" Then said Hrr: "The streams called Ice-waves, those which were so long come from the fountain-heads that the yeasty venom upon them had hardened like the slag that runs out of the fire,--these then became ice; and when the ice halted and ceased to run, then it froze over above. But the drizzling rain that rose from the venom congealed to rime, and the rime increased, frost over frost, each over the other, even into Ginnungagap, the Yawning Void." Then spake Jafnhrr: "Ginnungagap, which faced toward the northern quarter, became filled with heaviness, and masses of ice and rime, and from within, drizzling rain and gusts; but the southern part of the Yawning Void was lighted by those sparks and glowing masses which flew out of Mspellheim." And Thridi said: "Just as cold arose out of Niflheim, and all terrible things, so also all that looked toward Mspellheim became hot and glowing; but Ginnungagap was as mild as windless air, and when the breath of heat met the rime, so that it melted and dripped, life was quickened from the yeast-drops, by the power of that which sent the heat, and became a man's form. And that man is named Ymir, but the Rime-Giants call him Aurgelimir; and thence are come the races of the Rime-Giants
Then said Gangleri: "How did the races grow thence, or after what fashion was it brought to pass that more men came into being? Or do ye hold him God, of whom ye but now spake?" And Jafnhrr answered: "By no means do we acknowledge him God; he was evil and all his kindred: we call them Rime-Giants. Now it is said that when he slept, a sweat came upon him, and there grew under his left hand a man and a woman, and one of his feet begat a son with the other; and thus the races are come; these are the Rime-Giants. The old Rime-Giant, him we call Ymir."
Then said Gangleri: "Where dwelt Ymir, or wherein did he find sustenance?" Hrr answered: "Straightway after the rime dripped, there sprang from it the cow called Audumla; four streams of milk ran from her udders, and she nourished Ymir." Then asked Gangleri: "Wherewithal was the cow nourished?" And Hrr made answer:
"She licked the ice-blocks, which were salty; and the first day that she licked the blocks, there came forth from the blocks in the evening a man's hair; the second day, a man's head; the third day the whole man was there. He is named Bri: he was fair of feature, great and mighty. He begat a son called Borr, who wedded the woman named Bestla, daughter of Blthorn the giant; and they had three sons: one was Odin, the second Vili, the third V. And this is my belief, that he, Odin, with his brothers, must be ruler of heaven and earth; we hold that he must be so called; so is that man called whom we know to be mightiest and most worthy of honor, and ye do well to let him be so called.
this is small evidence, but enough, for me to ACKNOWLEDGE that there is a very real possibility, even though i'm not positive, i like to think so.
I guess there's a small possibility of everything, for reasons I explained in my previous post.

This message is a reply to:
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