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Author Topic:   The Truth About Evolution and Religion
dkroemer
Member (Idle past 5075 days)
Posts: 125
From: Brooklyn, New York
Joined: 05-15-2010


Message 241 of 419 (561340)
05-20-2010 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by Dr Adequate
05-19-2010 6:10 PM


Re: and yet, curiously, it is still explained by evolution ...
What mistakes about biology to advocates of intelligent design make?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-19-2010 6:10 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-21-2010 12:22 AM dkroemer has replied

  
dkroemer
Member (Idle past 5075 days)
Posts: 125
From: Brooklyn, New York
Joined: 05-15-2010


Message 242 of 419 (561342)
05-20-2010 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by Huntard
05-19-2010 5:12 PM


Re: But we do know of other factors
Human beings have free will and conscious knowledge. This means humans are embodied spirits. Body and soul are the metaphysical categories of matter and form applied to humans. If you admit that humans have free will and that free will is not a scientific concept, I'll explain the correlative concepts of form and matter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by Huntard, posted 05-19-2010 5:12 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Huntard, posted 05-20-2010 1:47 AM dkroemer has replied

  
dkroemer
Member (Idle past 5075 days)
Posts: 125
From: Brooklyn, New York
Joined: 05-15-2010


Message 243 of 419 (561344)
05-20-2010 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by New Cat's Eye
05-19-2010 4:23 PM


Re: But we do know of other factors
When an object slides on a table and friction slows it down, the kinetic energy is lost. It is not conserved. Scientists solved the problem by inventing a new energy: internal energy or heat energy. The kinetic energy is transformed into heat energy.
The calculation I gave does not take into consideration natural selection and facilitated variation. Gerhart and Krishner discuss this calculation in their book, which I reproduce on my YouTube video.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-19-2010 4:23 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-20-2010 10:32 AM dkroemer has not replied
 Message 268 by RAZD, posted 05-20-2010 12:33 PM dkroemer has not replied

  
dkroemer
Member (Idle past 5075 days)
Posts: 125
From: Brooklyn, New York
Joined: 05-15-2010


Message 244 of 419 (561345)
05-20-2010 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Taq
05-19-2010 4:13 PM


Re: But we do know of other factors
The soul is not a religious belief. It is a metaphysical category that biologists need to justify not including free will and conscious knowledge in their textbooks. The soul is the principle that makes humans equal to one another and superior to animals. Biologists only study the bodies of humans, not their souls.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Taq, posted 05-19-2010 4:13 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Taq, posted 05-20-2010 11:16 AM dkroemer has not replied

  
dkroemer
Member (Idle past 5075 days)
Posts: 125
From: Brooklyn, New York
Joined: 05-15-2010


Message 245 of 419 (561349)
05-20-2010 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by Taq
05-19-2010 4:12 PM


Re: But we do know of other factors
I am not criticizing biologists. I am criticizing non-biologists who think they understand evolution. Biology text books and peer-reviewed articles give a correct explanation of biology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Taq, posted 05-19-2010 4:12 PM Taq has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 246 of 419 (561354)
05-20-2010 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by dkroemer
05-20-2010 12:52 AM


Re: But we do know of other factors
dkroemer writes:
Human beings have free will and conscious knowledge.
I agree.
This means humans are embodied spirits.
Really? How come? Please, just answer the question. You assert that having free will and conscious knowledge means we must be embodied spirits, demonstrate to me why this conclusion is valid.
If you admit that humans have free will and that free will is not a scientific concept, I'll explain the correlative concepts of form and matter.
What do you mean by "Free will is not a scientific concept"? I'll admit humans have free will, in that they can distinguish between different choices that can be made and choose one of the options available.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by dkroemer, posted 05-20-2010 12:52 AM dkroemer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by dkroemer, posted 05-20-2010 3:27 AM Huntard has replied

  
dkroemer
Member (Idle past 5075 days)
Posts: 125
From: Brooklyn, New York
Joined: 05-15-2010


Message 247 of 419 (561359)
05-20-2010 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by Huntard
05-20-2010 1:47 AM


Re: But we do know of other factors
Science is based on knowledge gained from the five senses. We know we have free will because we can make ourselves the subject of our own knowledge. We can comprehend free will, but we can't define. Humans are indefinabilities that become conscious of their own existence. Another way of saying this is that humans are embodied spirits.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Huntard, posted 05-20-2010 1:47 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by Huntard, posted 05-20-2010 3:41 AM dkroemer has replied

  
dkroemer
Member (Idle past 5075 days)
Posts: 125
From: Brooklyn, New York
Joined: 05-15-2010


Message 248 of 419 (561360)
05-20-2010 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by Iblis
05-20-2010 12:45 AM


Re: every minute
The odds of a shuffled deck producing the same order of cards that manufacturers use are one in 52 X 51 X 50 .... The odds of getting four perfect bridge hands is less. However, if a billion people played bridge for 13.5 billion years, one hand a second, there would never be four perfect bridge hands.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Iblis, posted 05-20-2010 12:45 AM Iblis has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 249 of 419 (561361)
05-20-2010 3:41 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by dkroemer
05-20-2010 3:27 AM


Re: But we do know of other factors
dkroemer writes:
Science is based on knowledge gained from the five senses. We know we have free will because we can make ourselves the subject of our own knowledge.
You've said this several times before, it doesn't make it any more true.
We can comprehend free will, but we can't define.
The ability to distinguish between differeent choices and pick one of them. There, defined.
Humans are indefinabilities that become conscious of their own existence.
I'm sorry, what?
Another way of saying this is that humans are embodied spirits.
This makes just as much sense. Namely none.
I'm really trying to get at what you're trying to say here, but all I can see is some mumbo jumbo about "ndefinabilities" and "embodied spirits". What is the point to all that? Are these your beleifs (if they are, ok fine, if that makes you happy, it still leaves me wondering why you started this thread) or can you demonstrate them in any way to be true?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by dkroemer, posted 05-20-2010 3:27 AM dkroemer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by dkroemer, posted 05-20-2010 3:51 AM Huntard has replied

  
dkroemer
Member (Idle past 5075 days)
Posts: 125
From: Brooklyn, New York
Joined: 05-15-2010


Message 250 of 419 (561362)
05-20-2010 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Huntard
05-20-2010 3:41 AM


Re: But we do know of other factors
We know that the sky is blue from the sense of sight. How do we know that we have free will?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Huntard, posted 05-20-2010 3:41 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Huntard, posted 05-20-2010 4:04 AM dkroemer has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 251 of 419 (561363)
05-20-2010 4:04 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by dkroemer
05-20-2010 3:51 AM


Re: But we do know of other factors
dkroemer writes:
We know that the sky is blue from the sense of sight. How do we know that we have free will?
Uhm... From our ability to choose?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by dkroemer, posted 05-20-2010 3:51 AM dkroemer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by dkroemer, posted 05-20-2010 6:20 AM Huntard has replied

  
dkroemer
Member (Idle past 5075 days)
Posts: 125
From: Brooklyn, New York
Joined: 05-15-2010


Message 252 of 419 (561371)
05-20-2010 6:20 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by Huntard
05-20-2010 4:04 AM


Re: But we do know of other factors
We know we have free ill because we know we have the ability to choose? This is called begging the question or circular reasoning.
Another question: Take knowing that this page is black and white. This means more than that light is entering our eye and a signal is going to our brain. It means an awareness of this. What is it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Huntard, posted 05-20-2010 4:04 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Huntard, posted 05-20-2010 7:10 AM dkroemer has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 253 of 419 (561374)
05-20-2010 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by dkroemer
05-20-2010 6:20 AM


Re: But we do know of other factors
dkroemer writes:
We know we have free ill because we know we have the ability to choose? This is called begging the question or circular reasoning.
No, it's called using logiic. We have the ability to choose, ergo we can conclude that we have free will.
Another question: Take knowing that this page is black and white. This means more than that light is entering our eye and a signal is going to our brain. It means an awareness of this. What is it?
What? I know this page is black and white, because I can see this page is black and white.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by dkroemer, posted 05-20-2010 6:20 AM dkroemer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by dkroemer, posted 05-20-2010 7:15 AM Huntard has replied

  
dkroemer
Member (Idle past 5075 days)
Posts: 125
From: Brooklyn, New York
Joined: 05-15-2010


Message 254 of 419 (561376)
05-20-2010 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Huntard
05-20-2010 7:10 AM


Re: But we do know of other factors
Free will means I can move my hand anyway I want. But if I cut my hand off, I still exist. My hand is something that I have. What is the relationship between myself and my body?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Huntard, posted 05-20-2010 7:10 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Huntard, posted 05-20-2010 7:18 AM dkroemer has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 255 of 419 (561377)
05-20-2010 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by dkroemer
05-20-2010 7:15 AM


Re: But we do know of other factors
dkroemer writes:
Free will means I can move my hand anyway I want.
No, taht's called muscle control. And you can't move your hand anyway you want. Youcan't spin it around 400 times for example, even if you wanted to.
But if I cut my hand off, I still exist.
Of course.
My hand is something that I have. What is the relationship between myself and my body?
What? This makes very little sense to me. Could you elaborate please?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by dkroemer, posted 05-20-2010 7:15 AM dkroemer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by dkroemer, posted 05-20-2010 8:43 AM Huntard has replied

  
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