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Author Topic:   dinosaur and human co-existence
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 181 of 271 (560502)
05-15-2010 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Coragyps
05-15-2010 3:26 PM


Re: Core Sampling.
Coragyps writes:
Your statement is unclear enough that I don't really know if I savvy it. But air bubbles recovered from multiple ice cores show that our atmosphere has been quite uniform for at least a couple of hundred thousand years. And the same ice cores show no trace whatever of thawing or seawater contamination in the last 200,000 to 800,000 years - different cores sample to older times. So why bother to even factor out a Floode that never was?
Again this is debatable for another topic. For the record, noted Robert Ballard's Black Sea discoveries and oceanographic core samples from the Gulf of Mexico indicate that there was a relatively recent flood involving a sudden change in the salinity of in these regions.
ABE: Though the Ballard and Nat'l Geographic ToE camp try to isolate the Black Sea event to the Mediterranean regon, the two evidences from opposite sides of the planet implicate a global event.
Edited by Buzsaw, : As noted in Context

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Coragyps, posted 05-15-2010 3:26 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 183 of 271 (560508)
05-15-2010 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Percy
05-15-2010 9:07 AM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Percy writes:
Now, Buz, what do I say next?
Percy, springtime is one of my busiest times away from my computer, so much so, that I simply don't have time to rehash it all again. I've tried to convey to you that what you have is what you get from me. If that looses your debate, simply blame it on EvC's Buzsaw and get yourself off the hook.
I maintain that I have at least as much evidence for my hypothesis as you have for the alleged crater hypothesis.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Percy, posted 05-15-2010 9:07 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Theodoric, posted 05-15-2010 4:55 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 191 by Percy, posted 05-15-2010 9:30 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 185 of 271 (560513)
05-15-2010 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Theodoric
05-15-2010 4:55 PM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Theodoric writes:
The problem buz is that you have not presented ANY evidence. All you have done is present assertions. How about just a little bit of evidence. There have been numerous examples of evidence that is counter to your hypothesis. You have not presented any evidence to counter. I am quite certain that no one besides you thinks that anything you have presented even remotely resembles evidence.
Theodoric, you're demonstrating what I've been saying relative to Biblical ID evidence due to the fact that the acknowledgement of one itty bit of it would destroy their twin towers of the BB and ToE. Secularists wouldn't acknowledge it if they were wading knee deep in it. Pray tell, what better evidence does the crater selective extinction hypothesis have?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Theodoric, posted 05-15-2010 4:55 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Theodoric, posted 05-15-2010 6:21 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 187 by PaulK, posted 05-15-2010 6:49 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied
 Message 198 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-16-2010 1:59 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 188 of 271 (560539)
05-15-2010 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Theodoric
05-15-2010 6:21 PM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Theodoric writes:
None of the great extinctions was selective and no one has ever suggested they were.
Suggested? It's an established fact that one type exclusively became extinct while the others thrived and survived. This implies selection which implies ID which becomes supportive to the Genesis record and which leaves the alleged K/T extinction event questionable.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Theodoric, posted 05-15-2010 6:21 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by DrJones*, posted 05-15-2010 9:20 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 199 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-16-2010 2:03 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 189 of 271 (560541)
05-15-2010 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by lyx2no
05-15-2010 4:36 PM


Re: Meteor Selective Wipeout
lyx2no writes:
So, is Keller arguing that the impact occurred 304,350 years ago? Because if she isn't her argument doesn't help you much.
Say what? Perhaps you should either explain yourself or click back to the message and read what she said, Lyx2no.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by lyx2no, posted 05-15-2010 4:36 PM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by lyx2no, posted 05-15-2010 10:40 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 194 of 271 (560551)
05-15-2010 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by lyx2no
05-15-2010 10:40 PM


Re: FOUL BALL!
lyx2no writes:
I choose explain.
You have the dinos killed off in a great flood 4,350 years ago. As you are citing Keller, who puts the strike at 300,000 years prior to the extinction your great flood as evidence for your position, you are, therein, putting the strike at 304,350 years ago.
All well and good. But if you don't believe that Keller is arguing for a strike at 304,350 years ago you shouldn't be citing her as support for your position. You can't go round citing the bits you like. It's called quote mining. Are you familiar with the term?
Hey, kiddo, I wasn't born 5 years ago, so stop treating me as if I was. Nice try at obfuscating my position, applying my flood catastrophic non-uniform position to ToE dating methodology, which assumes relative uniformity.
You people continually demand SOURSE but when sources are cited you whine, quote miner.
The problem with some of you people is that whenever a creationist begins scoring points, you resort to backhanded tactics, such as this or demeaning personal attacks relative to information damaging to your arguments.
It's no wonder dear sister Faith lost her cool and nobody having anything but really thick skin comes here to argue with you people for any length of time.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by lyx2no, posted 05-15-2010 10:40 PM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-16-2010 1:48 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 200 by lyx2no, posted 05-16-2010 2:33 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 201 by PaulK, posted 05-16-2010 5:13 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 207 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-16-2010 11:32 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 195 of 271 (560556)
05-16-2010 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by Percy
05-15-2010 9:30 PM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Percy writes:
.......the message containing this evidence and quote the portion........
The message? Portion of message?? Percy, if in seven long pages and hours of research and debate, you can't find more than one portion of one message supportive of my position, why don't you just cut to the chase and ban me from the thread? It appears that that's what you're about. No?
(And yah, it was me that gives you a one rating for this message. )

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Percy, posted 05-15-2010 9:30 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Percy, posted 05-16-2010 6:03 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 196 of 271 (560557)
05-16-2010 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by Coyote
05-15-2010 10:59 PM


Re: Get Up to Speed
Coyote, you said you were leaving. Why don't you either keep your word or say something edifying and leave off the personal attack.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Coyote, posted 05-15-2010 10:59 PM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 204 of 271 (560585)
05-16-2010 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Dr Adequate
05-16-2010 2:03 AM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Dr Adequate writes:
No. It is absolutely certain that this is untrue.
Please explain your blind assertion, Doc. Thanks.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-16-2010 2:03 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Huntard, posted 05-16-2010 11:28 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 216 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-16-2010 11:59 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 205 of 271 (560587)
05-16-2010 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by Percy
05-16-2010 6:03 AM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
All right, Percy. Give me some time and I'll work on your list.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Percy, posted 05-16-2010 6:03 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 208 of 271 (560663)
05-16-2010 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Huntard
05-16-2010 11:28 AM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Huntard writes:
Will you finally own up to the fact that dinosaurs weren't the only group that went extinct in the K-T event, or will you continue to lie about it? Yes, lie, since you have been shown that you are wrong, yet continue to say this stuff anyway.
Why should I own up to anything not soundly refuted. This very message is a good example of a bogus refute by Dr A.
It is a scientific fact that the extinction of the dinosarus as a group was far, far greater and more significant than the few Google mined (Buzsaw is purported to be the only quoteminer) relatively scanty specimens.
It is a scientific fact that the Tertiary Period began as the dino group ended.
It is a scientific fact that the pre-Tertiary climate was warmer and wetter and that the era of the dinos was during that wetter and warmer era.
Buzsaw's science compatible claim is that the Biblical era of the dinos was, guess what? Wetter and warmer.
Sciences problematic claim is that the dinos were the only exclusive great significant group that became extinct and that a meteor hit likely caused the sudden extinction, leaving the other great significant groups surviving and thriving.
Buzsaw's Biblical thesis has it that a canopy like atmosphere afforded the wetter and warmer era and that the ID effected change in the reptiles, all of the unchanged ones being anhilated in the ww flood.
So don't tell me I'm a liar and need to cave, Hunter, when in fact my hypothesis has no less evidence than secular science's meteor hypothesis.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Huntard, posted 05-16-2010 11:28 AM Huntard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by Modulous, posted 05-16-2010 10:21 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 211 by Coyote, posted 05-16-2010 10:38 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 209 of 271 (560666)
05-16-2010 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Hyroglyphx
05-16-2010 11:32 AM


Re: Fantastic Claims
Hyroglyphx writes:
Buz, you have to understand that you've made some pretty fantastic claims. Some we have all heard before
That makes me very scientific like, Hyro. That's the science thing, i.e. fantastic claims that we repeatedly debate here at EvC.
Claims like a thing called the alleged once sub-microscopic universe with all of it's energy was a sub-microscopic dot having no space to have existed within, no outside of to expand into and no time to have existed etc.
Claims like life began and progressed from pre-mordial soup or something like that to advance into all that is observed today.
Claims like a meteor hit on the planet wiped out the dinos leaving most of the other reptiles to survive and thrive.
So Hyro, things like the flood, ID (higher intelligence) having the ability to create and change things are no more fantastic, when you think about it objectively than things you people believe and claim to be factual. Imo, they make a whole lot more sense than a lot of some secularist science arguments.
Edited by Buzsaw, : Update message title.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-16-2010 11:32 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-17-2010 12:28 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 220 by PaulK, posted 05-17-2010 1:56 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 223 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-17-2010 9:05 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 212 of 271 (560676)
05-16-2010 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Percy
05-16-2010 6:03 AM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Percy writes:
Crater
Shocked quartz in Nebraska
Tectites
Iridium
Tsunami deposits
Some equivalent and very brief list for the coexistence of humans and dinosaurs 4350 years ago should take you almost no time at all and I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks
Percy, thanks! Thanks very much! A proverbial light bulb just lit up my porverbial belfry as I meditated on this meteor event and evidence.
For decades I've wondered what triggered the ww flood event. It would be feasable that the way Jehovah effected the ww flood was this very meteor strike.
Both the Buzsaw Bible hypothosis and your science hypothesis has it that the climate was warmer and wetter during the dino era and that the cooling came at the time the dino era ended.
The Biblical premise and thesis implies a canopy like atmosphere from which most of the water which effected the ww flood. It also implicates the effects of the reptile curse and the end of the dinos at the time of the flood.
The same cooling and drying effect that began the alleged Tertiery era effected by the meteor evidence would have also caused the cooling and condensing of the canopy vapor and the alleged ww flood.
The Biblical premise clearly has it that dino's and humans co-existed, being all of the animals and mankind was allegedly created on the same day; day six.
Ever since a child I have asked God for wisdom and understanding in all things. Thus you have actually been instrumental in enlightment on this mystery as to what could have triggered the flood event.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Percy, posted 05-16-2010 6:03 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by hooah212002, posted 05-16-2010 11:16 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied
 Message 215 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-16-2010 11:55 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 226 by Percy, posted 05-17-2010 11:29 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 214 of 271 (560687)
05-16-2010 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by Coyote
05-16-2010 10:38 PM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Coyote writes:
There is no scientific evidence for that mythical "water canopy,"
Science = warmer and wetter planet in dino era.
Buzsaw/Genesis = warmer and wetter planet in dino era.
Science = warmer and wetter planet before K T event.
Buzsaw/Genesis = vapor canopy = warmer and wetter planet.
Science = crater event effects cooling and ends dino era.
Buzsaw/Genesis (new enlightment) = crater evemt effects condensation of canopy effecting cooling and ending dino era.
Coyote writes:
.......nor for a young earth.......
Science = old earth
Buzsaw/Genesis = old earth.
Coyote writes:
There is no scientific evidence for a global flood in the last 4500 or so years. Neither is there any scientific evidence for your view of dating.
Science = amount of carbon and other elements on earth and atmosphere affect dating data.
Buzsaw/Genesis = Catastrophic non-uniform elements on earth before 4350 years ago.
Coyote writes:
.......you are trying to delude us with your unsupported fantasies.
Science's unsupported fantasies (see msg to Hyroglyphx are deluding the sheeple.
Coyote writes:
And this is why I don't like posting to you on these issues. You just make things up! You have no touch with reality, or empirical evidence. If your religious beliefs say otherwise you just ignore any evidence, no matter how convincing that evidence is to others. You are lying to yourself and that's the worse lie of all.
Perceived reality sometimes becomes falsified by minority PoVs.
Coyote writes:
That is why I am not posting to you very often. Your approach is entirely foreign to me. If the evidence points in some direction, I have to follow it whether I like it or not. You, on the other hand, just ignore what you don't like. Sorry, that's not science, nor is it honest. Nor is it something that I, as a scientist, can easily tolerate.
I regard you as a very intelligent, pleasant and respectful member. Perhaps, however, people like you who've been indoctrinated into your mindset in academia need to at least become aware of alternative possibilities and to confront the challenge some of them bring. I don't think you or anyone else in this thread has effectively (I say effectively) met that challenge in this thread. You have unfinished work here before you can count the ole man down and out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Coyote, posted 05-16-2010 10:38 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by hooah212002, posted 05-17-2010 12:16 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 222 by ZenMonkey, posted 05-17-2010 2:37 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 224 of 271 (560743)
05-17-2010 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by Dr Adequate
05-16-2010 11:55 PM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Dr Adequate writes:
Buzsaw writes:
For decades I've wondered what triggered the ww flood event.
Traditionally, the flood has been ascribed to the will of God.
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened.
The Buzsaw thing has always applied science to the Biblical record. After all, God, being the source of the observable scientific laws does not violate his own laws. It is the Buzsaw Biblical Hypothesis that best accomodates 1 LoT, in that it eliminates the magical notion of your version of science that the universe and time being finite had a beginning, i.e. energy had a beginning. The Buzsaw Biblical thing has a rational explanation for all of the design, order and complex things observed in the universe. We just don't observe complex order when things are left unmanaged except in flukey rare occasions. Things we observe around us in the real world deterioriate, run down and become disorderly as time passes. That's scientific.
Now, Doc, you go on to fault fundies for looking for naturalistic causes while looking for magical explanations. That's not what I'm about or what I'm doing. Note below what I say next: "Jehovah (magical in your view) effected (worked/caused) the ww flood" via a meteor strike. (natural)
God didn't simply say words to create things. He worked, using energy to do it. He didn't magically zap man into existence. He brought him forth from dirt, i.e. from the earth via work as does your science. Your science says the earth essentially created/designed itself, violating what we observe in real life around us. My Biblical science says it was planned and designed by energy that never had a beginning as per 1LoT.
So you see, Doc, what you're doing here is ascribing ID as magic, when infact all ID is about is to recognize the science thing of observed evidence. Observed evidence in the real world around us is that order just does not come about by leaving things to themselves unmanaged. If I leave a warehouse untended, it will eventually the roof leaks and it along with it's contents deteriorate.
Dr Adequate writes:
Buzsaw writes:
It would be feasable that the way Jehovah effected the ww flood was this very meteor strike.
You would then have to attribute all the sedimentary rocks below the KT boundary to real processes and not the magic flood.
Only, Dr Adequate, if you do the inadequate thing of equating intelligent management of real processes to magic.
Dr Adequate writes:
Buzsaw writes:
Ever since a child I have asked God for wisdom and understanding in all things.
And then people wonder why I'm an atheist.
No Doc. You're an athiest because you have failed to ask the omnicient god, Jehovah the Biblical god, for wisdom and understanding in all things.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-16-2010 11:55 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-17-2010 12:24 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 228 by Modulous, posted 05-17-2010 5:12 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

  
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