|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total) |
| |
popoi | |
Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Noah's ark found ?!? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2106 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Buz, what about all of the evidence that shows there was no global flood some 4,350 years ago?
How can you ignore that in favor of what really amount to a tribal myth? That flood myth was already old when it was included in the bible. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
The same way that he thinks that the Ark is more likely to be a natural rock formation - as even YECs who have examines the site say - rather than an actual wooden structure dated to be the right age ?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Species8472 Junior Member (Idle past 4882 days) Posts: 29 Joined: |
I don't know if anyone has read this article. Some long time ark searchers are having doubts. Read it at
Doubt cast on Noah's ark found in Turkey - CSMonitor.com
quote: |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Apothecus Member (Idle past 2411 days) Posts: 275 From: CA USA Joined:
|
Hey Buz.
It would be impossible for cows, horses and other animals to leave the ark on rough terrain. What makes this so farfetched to you? You believe God could've done anything he wished with the animals after the ark came to rest on, well, wherever it came to rest, correct? If not, where must the ark have ended up in order to satisfy all the terrain, dietary, and climatic requirements of every pair of animals? Low lying tropical rain forest? Penguins, polar bears, arctic wolves are all screwed.High mountain arid area? Crocodiles, frogs, newts, salamanders, screwed. Desert? See ya bobcats, cows, gorillas and tigers. Anywhere but Australia? Nice knowing you, marsupials. You see Buz, unless you invoke divine intervention in the form of The Miraculous Redistribution of Post Flood Animals (what would the carnivores have eaten? Plants? You'd need yet more miracles, I guess), the whole story (again) falls to pieces. So in light of this, what were you saying again about cows' ability to negotiate mountainous terrain? Have a good one. Edited by Apothecus, : Speelig "My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose. J.B.S Haldane 1892-1964
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rahvin Member Posts: 4032 Joined: Member Rating: 9.2
|
Assuming, for the sake of argument, that the Flood was a real event as described in the Bible:
I'm thinking that the reason little if any evidence of iron is with the ark or much else is that after landing, most of the ark, including the iron parts were dismantled to use for building structures to live in, etc since they would have landed with need for supplies. This is valid reasoning. If the entire world has just been flooded for a year, there will be no shelter available. Any homes or other buildings would have been destroyed. Even after disembarking, the Ark would have been the sole source of shelter until new structures could be built, and would very likely be cannibalized for materials (even fuel for fires) once new shelter had been constructed. The Ark would have been needed as shelter for quite some time, because a global Flood would ruin existing supplies of wood and other building materials. All of the trees would have been killed and left as driftwood for the entire event, possibly buried under sediment. Noah and company may have been able to find a cave for shelter, but the Ark, having already served as effective shelter for both the family and innumerable animals would have made a perfect barn and living structure for continued use as (presumably) the ecology magically begins to recover. Let most of the animals out for their magical cross-continental migrations, but keep most of the domesticated animals like cows, goats, sheep, etc for food and the re-establishment of agriculture. As Noah et al work on more permanent structures or at least prepare to leave the landing site, the Ark would have represented a massive amount of recoverable resources. You could try to re-use the wood either for construction or for firewood, since other wood sources would take decades to be replenished. If metal was used, it would be especially valuable, as post-Flood there would be no mining/smelting infrastructure set up for acquiring new metal - a process that would also take significant time given the number of people involved and their other challenges and priorities. Even if we assume the Flood myth to be true, there is still little reason to expect that we would ever actually find the Ark itself. It's far easier to support or falsify the Flood myth by looking at biology, archeology and geology to find broken cultures, sudden extinction events, genetic bottlenecks, global sediment deposits, etc.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
slevesque Member (Idle past 4641 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
the Chinese seem to have answered a bit to Price's leaked email (found here: Welcome michaelsheiser.com - BlueHost.com). they posted a video on there website explaining why they doubt this could all be a set up hoax.
http://www.noahsarksearch.net/big5/content02.php the text on the right reads: ''Responds some archaeologist to suspect the wood construction is the Turk counterfeits the event, the Hong Kong square boat explores member Li Yaohui to reiterate: The Hong Kong members mount truly and witness four kilometer Asia to pull on the sacrificial mountain to have the giant wood construction.He thought if the Turkish troop counterfeits, does not need to make multitudinous spatial as well as the neighbor fragmentary lumber, when space is slips along with the team photographer the accident enters.The environment sees, the neighbor has the break thick wood, longest amounts to 20 meters, Tibet in six meter deep ice cavern, discovered obtained 絶 not impossible is counterfeits '' (thanks online translator) Meanwhile, CMI have been following all these and have an updated page on there website: Noah's ark or what - creation.com
ADDENDUM 2: Posted 6 May 2010 1. A number of CMI staff have been involved in ongoing discussions over the phone with reliable folk in Hong Kong we have known for years. These are people who have close contact with the team announcing the discovery and vouch for their integrity. 2. Indications at present are that the theory that ‘the Chinese team were victims of a hoax’ is getting harder to sustain. In particular, we have had direct assurance that the following pictures posted here below are ones taken directly by the team at various times at the site (click images to enlarge). Also, the discoverers have specifically responded on their website to the email by Dr Randall Price. 3. While unable to comment with certainty yet about items such as the straw and the cobwebs in some photos, in light of some of the comments circulating, it should be noted that spiders (and their insect prey) exist at even higher altitudes. There are many anecdotal accounts of people going up to something like this over the centuries, in which case straw may be useful for overnight bunking, etc. 4. Further investigations will likely require, initially, face-to-face inquiries with eyewitnesses, and hands-on inspection of artefacts/samples in Hong Kong. With the gracious consent of the discovery team, CMI has expressed that we are more than willing to cooperate with all relevant players, which will also assist us in being able to offer reliable commentary to our constituency via this page as it is updated. 5. If such investigations continue to progressively rule out the ‘planted hoax’ theory, then it would appear that a substantial wooden construction exists under the ice at this very high altitude on Greater Mt. Ararat, a construction whose nature is yet to be determined. 6. Greater Mt. Ararat is a volcano, with much evidence of ancient (hence postFlood) eruptions. So this could well be a memorial erected to the landing (which could have been elsewhere in the region, given that the Bible says the mountains of Ararat/Urartu centuries later). If so, it would still be a major archeological discovery of great interest to creationists in particular. So I'll add a couple questions: 1- Do you believe the chinese crew is being truly honest ? 2- Do you believe they really found a manmade structure up there ? 3- Were they tricked by the local Turks ? How could they have done that ? 4- If they were not tricked, and they really found a manmade structure up there, what are all the possibilities ? Is the ark even a possibility for you ? This should get some more discussion going. Edited by slevesque, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
hooah212002 Member (Idle past 802 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
This is still an issue? Even World nut Daily is admitting fraud. If WND is going against biblicals, it's safe to say it actually is a hoax.
Bob Cornuke of the Bible Archaeology Search and Exploration Institute writes: "This is a fake. It's a fraud and it's of the highest caliber according to what I can assess from the evidence and talking to eyewitnesses and people from Turkey." Regarding some of the photos published online, Cornuke told American Family Radio, "There are cobwebs up in the beams. You're not going to have wood at 14,000 feet in a glacier to have cobwebs in it. It's impossible to have that situation." I don't think we need to open up any more discussion about this hoax. "The Bible was written to show us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go" -Galileao
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
slevesque Member (Idle past 4641 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
So you're suggesting that the turks transported cobwebs up there during their attempted fraud ???
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
hooah212002 Member (Idle past 802 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
Not sure what exactly they did. But I am saying it is a hoax. I know how badly you wish for this to be true, but all evidence points to the contrary.
"The Bible was written to show us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go" -Galileao
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ramoss Member (Idle past 612 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
It would be more logical to assume that the photograph they took was not at 14,000 feet, but at a different location. Moving that amount of timber would disrupt spider webs.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Huntard Member (Idle past 2295 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
slevesque writes:
Even if they are the victim of a hoax, they're still not honest. Honest people do not go around saying stuff like "It's 99.9% sure this is the Ark!" without some proper research and tests being done first.
So I'll add a couple questions: 1- Do you believe the chinese crew is being truly honest ? 2- Do you believe they really found a manmade structure up there ?
Could be. Would have to see some evidence first though, and some confirmation by independent scientists.
3- Were they tricked by the local Turks ? How could they have done that ?
They built a structure there themselves?
4- If they were not tricked, and they really found a manmade structure up there, what are all the possibilities ? Is the ark even a possibility for you ?
It's a possibility, though a very very small one, so small as to be almost entirely unlikely, in my mind. Even if the Ark story is true, then there still would be no reason for there to be an ark today. I would've tore it down to use as building material, if I were Noah. Other possibilities? A shelter for shepherds who took their stock into the mountains, perhaps? Though I admittedly do not know enough about this to comment on it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
The story is that many of the photos were taken at the original Black Sea site, and that the timbers were then transported up the mountain to be "discovered" later. If it is true that cobwebs don't belong in a glacial site (and it seems plausible to me) then the existence of the cobwebs is consistent with the fraud story - and inconsistent with the Chinese claims.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taz Member (Idle past 3292 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Any news on this? I couldn't find anything on google.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024