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Author Topic:   Star formation
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2325 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 3 of 39 (556321)
04-19-2010 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by killinghurts
04-18-2010 11:20 PM


killinghurts writes:
If we can now explain the formation of stars without supernatural intervention, on what grounds does the bible claim god created them?
Let me answer with a question in return:
God could not have created stars through natural means becasue...?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by killinghurts, posted 04-18-2010 11:20 PM killinghurts has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by killinghurts, posted 04-19-2010 11:15 PM Huntard has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2325 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 5 of 39 (556326)
04-19-2010 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Flyer75
04-19-2010 7:49 AM


Flyer75 writes:
Would you not agree though killing that evolution needs no supernatural intervention for the formation of anything???
Why would you bring up evolution? We're talking about physics here, not biology.
The explanation a creationist is going to give you for star formation is the same explanation we (they) will give you for everything else in life, that being God created it initially and now nature runs it's course. Plant formation, the birth of animals and humans, ect...all created originally by God and now running it's natural birth/death course in life. I don't see the hangup for creationists in the star formation scenario.
Also a possible explanation. That it's happening naturally now does not mean the "originals" formed naturally as well. Of course, there's no evidence for this, and everything points to the exact opposite, but this is the faith and belief forum, so I guess this one counts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Flyer75, posted 04-19-2010 7:49 AM Flyer75 has replied

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 Message 6 by Flyer75, posted 04-19-2010 8:46 AM Huntard has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2325 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 7 of 39 (556333)
04-19-2010 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Flyer75
04-19-2010 8:46 AM


Flyer75 writes:
All I'm doing is simply addressing the OP question of if a star can form naturally, where is the need for a God and supernatural creation. I'm just saying, for the creationist, it's simple, maybe not "provable" but simple, God formed the stars, set them in motion and now they form and die on a natural basis, like everything else around us.
Yes,I got that, and I basically agreed with you. I just wanted to poin tout that we don't have any evidence from the real world supporting this. I also stated that since this is the faith and belief forum, this doesn't matter.
I short, I agree with your statement.
I'm not advocating that anyone here has to believe this but the OP wants answers (from creationists it appears) as for the need for a supernatural beginning to stars. I'm applying his question to everything out there, evolution included...why just mention the formation of stars???
Well, I guess the OP thought he had a point where he could say "gotcha, creationists". But we'll have to wait for him to answer. Also, if we were to talk about the origins of everything, this would a far to wide topic But yes, your explanation could fit there as well.
Again, I'll say, I agree with your explanation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Flyer75, posted 04-19-2010 8:46 AM Flyer75 has replied

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 Message 8 by Flyer75, posted 04-19-2010 9:04 AM Huntard has seen this message but not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2325 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 29 of 39 (556510)
04-20-2010 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by killinghurts
04-19-2010 11:15 PM


killinghurts writes:
reality tells us otherwise.
You have glimpsed god's abilities from reality? Do tell how you did this, I'm sure a lot of theologians are intersted in this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by killinghurts, posted 04-19-2010 11:15 PM killinghurts has replied

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 Message 37 by killinghurts, posted 04-21-2010 10:47 PM Huntard has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2325 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 34 of 39 (556771)
04-21-2010 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by xavierkress
04-21-2010 12:55 AM


Re: What grounds does Bible claim God created them.
I see you've got a lot of thing wrong here, unfortunately thi sin't really the thread to talk about them (this one should be a bout star formation) I'll see if I can give you some answers, ut it would be best to take these individual things to the threads they belong to, or start new threads to discuss them.
xavierkress writes:
Can we deny in any true evidence that God did not create everything and then once created set things into motion to act in it's own accord?
No, but why should we consider something for which there is no evidence.
Define FSM please as I haven't heard the acronym before.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster, the deity that Hooah thinks is responsible for creating everything.
Just because God put things into motion doesn't mean He just sits there and doesn't do anything now.
Got any evidence of god working within his creation at this point in time?
There are plenty of prophecies within the Bible that have come true...
Actually, no there aren't. This is a lie often told by apologists. Sadly for them, it takes a lot of twisting of the prophecies to make them fit, and even then it's not convincing.
...and none so far that have proven to be false.
Actually, there are plenty. How about Jesus' prophecy that "not a generation shall pass" till the events he described would occur. There's been plenty of generations since then, it hasn't occurred yet. Or the prophecy about Tyre? Tyre is still there, you know.
Archeologists have gone out to disprove the Bible only to find they are unable...
Actually, there's absolutely no evidence that archaeologists have found for, say, the Exodus, or the flood. This has led them to conclude it idn't happen.
...and usually come back believers in the Bible.
Another one of those lies told by apologists. This is also simply not true.
Must explain a bit more here. Isn't that what the primodial soup theory is about? out of this soup man formed after several generations of other forms were created until we arrived at this one?
That's not what the bible says happened though, is it?
And what's the ratio of probabilities say of first two human's being developed at the same time of opposite sexes and perfectly developed to meet the needs of the other to reproduce?
This shows you know very little about biology/evolution. There's no sudden marker where what was born and called "homo sapiens" was so utterly different from it's mother/father that it couldn't reproduce with it's parent species anymore. Evolution is all about gradual change. Your kids can reproduce with other kids can't they? And so on for generation upon generation. But look back 100.000 generations, and your kids won't be able to reproduce with that generation. That's how speciation works. There are no sudden transitions.
A few tips: Use the "peek" button on the lower right side of this post to see how I made those neat quoteboxes.
And if you want to continue this discussion I suggest either proposing a new topic, or finding existing ones to talk about them. This topic should be about star formation and god's role in it. We like to keep things fairly on topic in this forum.
Oh, and welcome to EvC!
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by xavierkress, posted 04-21-2010 12:55 AM xavierkress has not replied

  
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