Marxism

Why are you raving about "postmodernism"? But my point was that you are not being mocked because there is something special about the people who post on EvC. You are being mocked because almost everyone would find your opinions contemptible, pathetic, and disgusting.

You are, of course, a liar, and everyone reading this thread knows that you are a liar.

Amazingly, Faith sees no contradiction in these two statements.

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Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas JeffersonFor we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack ObamaWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

I wrote:

quote:

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hypothetical situation number 1 this one hits close to home as my best friend was in this situation and I want to make it clear that I don't think she's stupid like others have said just had emotional issues and isn't full control of what she did.

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1. Suzy loves her partner Tommy. Tommy Physically beats and psychologically abuses Suzy. Suzy always goes back to Tommy. The police are constantly called for the domestic violence.

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Why should the tax payers pay to make sure Tommy doesn't crack Suzy's skull or for that matter help Suzy get away from Tommy? After all many will argue that Suzy is making a "stupid" Decisions.

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You responded Now I'm REALLY confused.... Now it is "stealing" to be taxed to pay for the police to come and stop tommy from cracking suzy's skull? I would say the same thing about a conservative.... Isn't that odd? I stated a practical and economic reason why we should have these programs and WHY EVERYONE benefits including the rich business man. It's YOU who is thinking with emotions. You FEEL you or someone else is getting cheated. Therefore you FEEL it is "stealing".Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

Let's see if I have this straight.55 years ago, when Eisenhower was president, and the highest marginal tax rate was over 90%, taxation was a civic responsibity.Today, when the highest marginal tax rate is less than 40%, taxation is stealing.And, all the while, morals are absolute unchanging, immutable.

Where the "objective" meaning of stealing is something that a mad person has made up in her head.

No, no, no, you haven't got it at all.Wheter or not taxation is stealing has nothing to do with taxation, as such. It's stealing if Faith doesn't like the purposes to which the tax revenues are applied.The amount of money the government takes from you doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not Faith likes the way it's spent.Yeah, I thought we lived in a democracy too. But it turns out that we live in a Faithocracy, and that anything Faith doesn't like is a crime, no matter what the law actually says.Either that or Faith is insane.

I'm struggling to put together some kind of "position" for Faith, despite the logical convolutions in her posts. Here is what I think I'm seeing so far, though I could be wrong because she has contradicted herself numerous times.It's OK if the rich willingly give to charity to help the poor. But if they choose not to do this then the government is "stealing" from them by requiring taxes. Again, this only applies to the "needy". Faith says this amounts to forcefully taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor (she would have made a good Sheriff of Nottingham), which is absolutely and morally wrong, according to her. These criticisms do not apply to public services such as maintaining a police or firefighting force. There have been no further clarifications as to which other areas of government expenditure are legitimately entitled to taxes, though there have been many requests for this clarification. As far as I can see, Faith is fixed on the idea of the "needy" who are "stealing" from the rich, which is facilitated by the government's taxation system.Faith has ignored repeated requests from me and many others here to explain what her alternative system would be. Surely if stealing is morally wrong, Faith believes there should be a stop to it. If the rich stop involuntarily paying taxes in order to support the needy, there will be very little charity money given instead, and there will effectively be no safety net in existence for anyone who finds themselves without a job for whatever reason. So someone who might have been out of a job for a few months, and then gets back on the ladder with the help of welfare, now is in danger of losing everything and being destitute for life, along with the family they had been supporting.Faith, this is what will happen if what you define as "stealing" ceases. I wonder if you would reply to Message 383 and explain to RAZD what you think should have happened to him when he was out of a job because of illness. If you do not believe he should have received state support, what else do you think should have been done to help him? Or do you not give a damn and think he should have been left out on the streets to fend for himself because it's not anybody else's business and he shouldn't have been taking their money?

You have yet to provide any concrete examples of this occurring. Please I am all ears. Provide an in-depth analysis of just one example of this occurring. How does this occur? How do you know whether money comes back into the system or not. For example, let us take welfare. How do you know that these very same individuals who receive welfare benefits do not later because of the benefits of the system, prosper and put money back into the system.Sure there are abuses. There are abuses with EVERY government system in the world. The problem is with the equitable (the same across the board) enforcement of rules and guidelines not usually with the rules and guidelines themselves. This happens because we are human and are subjective and emotional in our decision-making process. Does that mean we stop providing aid and support to people and regions of the world in desperate need?If you do not like the way this money is spent than you have several choices:a. you can elect new representatives that support your views
b. you can move to another country that provides a lot less welfare programs Because many of us do not call this stealing, we call it taxation which funds our government (local, state and federal) and to fund programs (many of which are funded by the State as well as Federally) which better American society. Than God and Jesus were theives because they both commanded "redistribution of wealth".

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Hi Faith,The sense you think you're making is a fantasy, and the people you claim exist who would support your nonsense are also a fantasy. You're living in a little Wonderland all inside your own head where like the Red Queen and Humpty Dumpty any word or argument means precisely what you intend it to mean. Your brain is somehow telling you this nonsense makes sense, and then you're concocting fictions about people who agree with you.Everyone here is arguing that government sponsored welfare funded by the tax system is not stealing in any legal sense. You yourself have argued that it is stealing in a moral but not legal sense, but now you can't even agree with yourself, continuing to argue anyway while appearing contradictory and nonsensical in the process.If there is truly someone out there who can make sense of your nonsense then please use all means available to get them to come here and act as interpreter.By the way, I am not a leftist. That's just another of your fantasies.--Percy

I'm so glad EvC isn't the world, and I'm very sorry I let myself get drawn so far into this thread. The irrationality is beyond beyond. If you can't make sense of what I've written, no translator can help you. Your minds are just destroyed.Cheers.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Regrettably, there are many people out there who think like Faith.You are seeing the new face of the Republican party, a party where people whose views are like those of Eisenhower or Nixon or Reagan are RINOs (Republicans In Name Only).Mob psychology can be a terribly powerful force.

Well if the aptly chosen quotes from the Bible in Message 399 are anything to go by, these people have no right to call themselves Christians. It's a perpetual irony to me that many are self-styled fundamentalists.Faith has no alternative to not taxing the rich for social programmes, or she would have answered this question. Interestingly she is also the recipient of some such funds. Psychologists could have a field day with this thread.

That's slander, nwr. Reagan is the hero of the conservatives I know, he's no RINO, he's the essence of conservatism.And your remark about "mob psychology" is perhaps the only truly "incendiary" remark on this thread, as you might as well be calling for force against all the peaceful good people who are demonstrating against this corrupt administration, some pictures of whom I just posted on the thread about media distortion.

The craziness at EvC has escalated since the last time I was here, which is saying quite a bit. I've answered everything on this thread honestly and I've also answered that false application of our Lord's words, which were never intended to apply to tyrannical stealing government but only to individuals, and Christians obey them all.I hope and pray the Lord will take me off government help. A friend insisted I get on it -- in fact she aggressively GOT me on it -- because Christians' taxes pay for it and otherwise the church would be helping me instead. I don't like the whole thing myself. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.