Marxism

the majority of the free western world don't have as much problems with these things as we seem to in this country.....Maybe part of our population isn't living in the real world and are falling for a delusion created by the large corporations who own all media outlets? Just an idea....? We should explore all ideas

I don't think they're acting independently.... I do believe they either act on people or act on the large amounts of money paid to them for campaignsPerhaps the ones who act for the people are the ones who depend on private individual campaigns? The ones who don't depend on corporate funding ? The second one has become far more common in the past few decades.Maybe the government isn't the problem but the people who are buying it are? I honestly would like your thoughts on this.Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

You keep ignoring me have I offended you? I'd honestly like to know how you feel about these questions

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faith writes:
And you guys really think you live in the real world. What can I say.

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I responded

the majority of the free western world don't have as much problems with these things as we seem to in this country.....

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Maybe part of our population isn't living in the real world and are falling for a delusion created by the large corporations who own all media outlets? Just an idea....? We should explore all ideas

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faith wrote:

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Unfortunately "the people" becomes a fiction the government just co-opts to itself when it acts independently

I responded:

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I don't think they're acting independently.... I do believe they either act on people or act on the large amounts of money paid to them for campaigns

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Perhaps the ones who act for the people are the ones who depend on private individual campaigns? The ones who don't depend on corporate funding ? The second one has become far more common in the past few decades.

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What I'm saying is maybe the people who have the money are controlling the government.What reason would the government have to act against the people that elected them unless something more insidious was going on?

So this absolute moral law defines "stealing" as taking from one to give to another. I can accept that for the sake of argument. I am however still perplexed why it doesn't apply to the Police departments which use tax money and take from another to give/protect another.I'm honestly trying to understand the distinction but I still can't see where you're drawing this line. I wish you could because when I go over to those forums they automatically start name calling when I ask questions.. Republicans tend to do this far more the Libertarians do though. I Never have had a Republican take the time to discuss it. Normally they get mad and call me a "Libtard" and that's as far as it goes. I thought I had been respectful yet that's the treatment I get. Should a liberal Christian be offended by this? I know a good many. I enjoy diversity and learning about what others believe but 98% Christians and Conservatives don't seem to want the same. I love when I find someone in that 2%Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

I disagree if you allow them to fail and become homeless they will have an effect on the economics and the social structure of the society. The vast majority of them do get back on their feet and do become productive members of the society again. If they didn't get this help they wouldn't be.
How is this not helping the community and greater good? Of course there are a few that abuse the system but they're less common then you might think. Statistics show it does work.I

Is it? Is not the purpose of the police to protect the community from the negative and dangerous effects of the killers , thieves , rapists etc.... ?

indeed by protecting the the community from the negative effects of murderers , rapists , thieves etc.... Not until they get the help to get back on their feet. When they do they will be. I thought I was being logical. I'm in a way thinking you aren't. I am confused by your logic

From where I'm standing welfare . Unemployment , and food stamps not only seem moral but also practical and beinfical to the community as a whole as it prevents people from not or never being productive member of society again.I wrote these in message 266 and then If not for the Police Suzy might be dead.If not for the government programs both Suzy and her two children most likely would never be productive members of society and might be deadDo you understand at all where I'm having trouble? Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

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hypothetical situation number 1 this one hits close to home as my best friend was in this situation and I want to make it clear that I don't think she's stupid like others have said just had emotional issues and isn't full control of what she did.

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1. Suzy loves her partner Tommy. Tommy Physically beats and psychologically abuses Suzy. Suzy always goes back to Tommy. The police are constantly called for the domestic violence.

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Why should the tax payers pay to make sure Tommy doesn't crack Suzy's skull or for that matter help Suzy get away from Tommy? After all many will argue that Suzy is making a "stupid" Decisions.

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You responded Now I'm REALLY confused.... Now it is "stealing" to be taxed to pay for the police to come and stop tommy from cracking suzy's skull? I would say the same thing about a conservative.... Isn't that odd? I stated a practical and economic reason why we should have these programs and WHY EVERYONE benefits including the rich business man. It's YOU who is thinking with emotions. You FEEL you or someone else is getting cheated. Therefore you FEEL it is "stealing".Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

It's funny you have to be the only person in my entire life to tell me I think with my emotions. I known as an emotionless jack ass Perhaps I'm simply being selfish because I'm smart enough to know keeping other people in the economy and productive helps stop me from also failing. If a large percentage of the population fails THEN THERE IS NO ECONOMY and I may lose my job and money. I'm sure you don't think that deep into it though. It helps keep him rich by keeping the economy moving... If the poor and middle class don't have money there is no economy. It's only those two classes that spend most of the money. so do you.... You think police and military are not "stealing" yet welfare is.

So... you're "stealing" from the tax payers or at least aiding in it..... if you lost this job you may get welfare plus assistance with utilities.It sounds to me you falsely believe that most people who are on these are lazy and don't want to work... When those people are far and few between. neither do 98% of the people on such programs

Government aid is also working for the good of the country....
I could care less about each individual person. it's for the good of the country to keep the country strong economically and socially.

YET you implied it right here I'm glad you work part time unlike those lazy people who are getting HUD plus welfare plus assistance with utilities.

To us it sounds that way.... You aren't making sense to us. Wasn't that the point of this? You wanted us to defend ourselves morally and when we do so without using feelings you respond with no argument and only feelings... You've not justified your stance other then "I think it's stealing" I'm sure.... Yeah we're bad people