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Author | Topic: Marxism | |||||||||||||||||||
DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
And you guys really think you live in the real world. What can I say. the majority of the free western world don't have as much problems with these things as we seem to in this country..... Maybe part of our population isn't living in the real world and are falling for a delusion created by the large corporations who own all media outlets? Just an idea....? We should explore all ideas
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
Unfortunately "the people" becomes a fiction the government just co-opts to itself when it acts independently I don't think they're acting independently.... I do believe they either act on people or act on the large amounts of money paid to them for campaigns Perhaps the ones who act for the people are the ones who depend on private individual campaigns? The ones who don't depend on corporate funding ? The second one has become far more common in the past few decades. Maybe the government isn't the problem but the people who are buying it are? I honestly would like your thoughts on this. Edited by DC85, : No reason given.
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
You keep ignoring me have I offended you? I'd honestly like to know how you feel about these questions
quote: quote:
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
I just don't have any idea what you are saying, no offense going on. I am very tired and my mind is elsewhere and it would take too much work to figure out what you are saying. I'm sorry. What I'm saying is maybe the people who have the money are controlling the government. What reason would the government have to act against the people that elected them unless something more insidious was going on?
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
It was more important to me to make the point that an absolute moral law overrides human laws So this absolute moral law defines "stealing" as taking from one to give to another. I can accept that for the sake of argument. I am however still perplexed why it doesn't apply to the Police departments which use tax money and take from another to give/protect another. I'm honestly trying to understand the distinction but I still can't see where you're drawing this line.
or into arguing with leftists because I'd love to have some help here. I had some friends from a conservative forum come here last time around and they got as frustrated I wish you could because when I go over to those forums they automatically start name calling when I ask questions.. Republicans tend to do this far more the Libertarians do though. I Never have had a Republican take the time to discuss it. Normally they get mad and call me a "Libtard" and that's as far as it goes. I thought I had been respectful yet that's the treatment I get.
who thinks like a conservative or Christian there's no way to avoid lots of that here. Should a liberal Christian be offended by this? I know a good many.
. Others tell me they can't stand the atmosphere where people believe as you all do. I enjoy diversity and learning about what others believe but 98% Christians and Conservatives don't seem to want the same. I love when I find someone in that 2% Edited by DC85, : No reason given.
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
The needy do NOT do anything for the community in exchange for the money they get from the government. They are not being paid for anything, they are GIVEN the money for nothing they do in exchange. I disagree if you allow them to fail and become homeless they will have an effect on the economics and the social structure of the society. The vast majority of them do get back on their feet and do become productive members of the society again. If they didn't get this help they wouldn't be.How is this not helping the community and greater good? Of course there are a few that abuse the system but they're less common then you might think. Statistics show it does work. I
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
You changed the meaning of doing or not doing work for the community to having an effect on the community by their poverty or success. Totally different conversation. Is it? Is not the purpose of the police to protect the community from the negative and dangerous effects of the killers , thieves , rapists etc.... ?
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
The police are doing work for the community. indeed by protecting the the community from the negative effects of murderers , rapists , thieves etc....
The needy are not. Not until they get the help to get back on their feet. When they do they will be.
Please don't destroy logic, it makes me crazy. I thought I was being logical. I'm in a way thinking you aren't. I am confused by your logic
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
From where I'm standing welfare . Unemployment , and food stamps not only seem moral but also practical and beinfical to the community as a whole as it prevents people from not or never being productive member of society again.
I wrote these in message 266
hypothetical situation number 1 this one hits close to home as my best friend was in this situation and I want to make it clear that I don't think she's stupid like others have said just had emotional issues and isn't full control of what she did. 1. Suzy loves her partner Tommy. Tommy Physically beats and psychologically abuses Suzy. Suzy always goes back to Tommy. The police are constantly called for the domestic violence. Why should the tax payers pay to make sure Tommy doesn't crack Suzy's skull or for that matter help Suzy get away from Tommy? After all many will argue that Suzy is making a "stupid" Decisions. and then
Do you remember Suzy? It's now been two years Suzy is now away from Tommy and has the two children. She is working as waitress at Applebees and going to school on Government grants. She is also receiving help to pay for an apartment and food stamps to help with expenses. Is Suzy "stealing" but wasn't before? I honestly don't understand what the differences are. If Joe got unemployment would he be "stealing"? How are these programs "stealing' but the police department isn't? If not for the Police Suzy might be dead. If not for the government programs both Suzy and her two children most likely would never be productive members of society and might be dead Do you understand at all where I'm having trouble? Edited by DC85, : No reason given.
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
I wrote:
quote: You responded
I make absolutely NO judgments about the rightness or wrongness or stupidity or intelligence of a person's life situation, none whatever, because none of that has anything to do with whether or not the government has a right to steal money. Say you have a friend who is suffering in that way, is it OK for you personally to steal money from a stranger to help her? If it isn't, why is it OK for the government to do it? Now I'm REALLY confused.... Now it is "stealing" to be taxed to pay for the police to come and stop tommy from cracking suzy's skull?
It does seem that liberals think with their emotions, reject logic, and end up rationalizing all kinds of immoral things I would say the same thing about a conservative.... Isn't that odd?
see, you WILL not think about the morality of the question of stealing. You think with your emotions: But but but Suzy NEEDS it. Right. Suzy needs help. I stated a practical and economic reason why we should have these programs and WHY EVERYONE benefits including the rich business man. It's YOU who is thinking with emotions. You FEEL you or someone else is getting cheated. Therefore you FEEL it is "stealing". Edited by DC85, : No reason given.
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
It's funny you have to be the only person in my entire life to tell me I think with my emotions. I known as an emotionless jack ass
YOU think It keeps people from being destitute, therefore it can't be stealing. Perhaps I'm simply being selfish because I'm smart enough to know keeping other people in the economy and productive helps stop me from also failing. If a large percentage of the population fails THEN THERE IS NO ECONOMY and I may lose my job and money. I'm sure you don't think that deep into it though.
This is insane. Stealing is taking without giving anything in exchange. The government gives nothing in exchange when it takes your money to give to the needy It helps keep him rich by keeping the economy moving... If the poor and middle class don't have money there is no economy. It's only those two classes that spend most of the money.
you define whether it's stealing or not by what it's used for, not I. How bizarre this list is. It's how YOU think. so do you.... You think police and military are not "stealing" yet welfare is.
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
I get some rental assistance through HUD. So... you're "stealing" from the tax payers or at least aiding in it.....
I work part time. if you lost this job you may get welfare plus assistance with utilities. It sounds to me you falsely believe that most people who are on these are lazy and don't want to work... When those people are far and few between.
No, I don't like it either, I don't like being in this position
neither do 98% of the people on such programs
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
Again, the police and military are working for the country Government aid is also working for the good of the country....I could care less about each individual person. it's for the good of the country to keep the country strong economically and socially.
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
I NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING. ALL ALONG YOU IDIOTS HAVE BEEN PROJECTING THIS IDIOTIC IDEA ON ME. NO, THIS IS NOT WHAT I'M SAYING. YET you implied it right here
faith wrote: I get some rental assistance through HUD. I'm not exactly "on welfare," some people get HUD plus welfare plus assistance with utilities. I work part time. I'm glad you work part time unlike those lazy people who are getting HUD plus welfare plus assistance with utilities.
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
You're projecting the hypocrisy and self-righteousness on my words, To us it sounds that way.... You aren't making sense to us.
I'm not going to try to defend myself morally Wasn't that the point of this? You wanted us to defend ourselves morally and when we do so without using feelings you respond with no argument and only feelings... You've not justified your stance other then "I think it's stealing"
Do you have ANY idea how patronizing that is? I'm sure....
faith wrote: You are a lying accusing howling leftist. Liar. Either that or your brain is just so fried from all the leftist indoctrination you've undergone you can't think. faith writes: WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE!? YOU'RE SICK SICK SICK. YOU'RE INSANE. faith writes: But you live in another conceptual universe. Grasp that first because NOTHING I will say will register in your conceptual universe. faith writes : Could be if I were a citizen in Wonderland where you can make me up to suit yourself but the fact is I don't listen to either of the persons you mention, who are probably also figments of Wonderland in your frame of reference. I don't even think much about taxation. I'm actually pretty nonpolitical. That's really the main reason grilling me on these subjects is nonsensical. faith writes:how about, and stop trashing people. Yeah we're bad people
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