Homeschooling

Homeschooling is a tool that many fundamentalists use to combat the perceived "sinfulness" of a public education system that teaches evolution. Since creationism won't be taught to their children in school, they take matters into their own hands and begin educating their children from home. A 1999 survey by the National Center for Education Statistics (U.S.) found the majority of people homeschooled their child(ren) because They can give their child(ren) a better education at home
There exists a poor learning environment at school
They have an objection to what the school teaches
Religious reasonsWhile none of them directly state it, all these reasons can be attributed to either objection to evolution or the absence of creationism in schools.What is your take on homeschooling, when practiced by fundamentalist parents as an objection to the teaching of evolution in public school systems? Do you feel as if these children are getting deprived of a proper education? Are they being "brainwashed"? Should homeschooling be illegal, especially when implemented in this manner?
My curiosity of your opinions is driven by the fact that I was raised under these conditions. (I somehow managed to not grow up to be a creationist.)

Thread copied here from the Homeschooling thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

Hi Nunquam,I have to say I'm hostile to homeschooling. I'm not sure it should be banned, but it should probably be more closely regulated. Parents should have to prove that they are providing a meaningful education, rather than just teaching the Bible by rote. Sadly, I suspect that many homeschooled kids are being denied a real education, especially in science. At the very least, it's hard to believe that most parents have the wide-ranging expertise needed to teach all subjects at once. The lack of socialisation is also a concern. Kids need to meet other kids, of all backgrounds, because when they become adults, they'll need to live in the real world, not the cosy sanctuary their parents build for them.Here's an interesting article on the topic;

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Top home-school texts dismiss Darwin, evolution

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LOUISVILLE, Ky. — Home-school mom Susan Mule wishes she hadn't taken a friend's advice and tried a textbook from a popular Christian publisher for her 10-year-old's biology lessons.

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Mule's precocious daughter Elizabeth excels at science and has been studying tarantulas since she was 5. But she watched Elizabeth's excitement turn to confusion when they reached the evolution section of the book from Apologia Educational Ministries, which disputed Charles Darwin's theory.

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"I thought she was going to have a coronary," Mule said of her daughter, who is now 16 and taking college courses in Houston. "She's like, 'This is not true!'"

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http://news.yahoo.com/..._on_re/us_rel_home_school_evolutionMutate and Survive

Hi Granny,Thank you for the response. I agree that it should be regulated. Most parents lack teaching degrees in one subject, let alone all of them. An interesting statistic though: in spite of the parents' lack of teaching credentials, homeschoolers fair better on standardized tests than their public school counterparts do. I'm not exactly sure why.
Regarding the lack of socialization, I think that the children are learning to be closed-minded by not being surrounded by differing opinions and worldviews. An example can be found in that article you posted:

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"He probably knows it better than the kids who have been taught evolution all through public school," Polly Brown said. "But that is in order for him to understand both sides of that argument because he will face it throughout his higher education."

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Despite the boy's "knowledge" of evolution, with the mom claiming that he knows more about it than the other kids do, he STILL doesn't accept it.

I think the kids' performance on standardised tests probably comes down to the extra time and attention homeschoolers get. In a regular school, a kid is lucky to get a few minutes with the tutor per class. With thirty or forty kids per class, it's gonna be tough to give them all the attention they deserve, especially in the areas they might find troublesome. I'd like to see those standardised tests on science subjects though... I agree. For my part, I hated school. I had a really miserable time, my teachers were often incompetent, some of them were a disgrace. Nonetheless, I am grateful that I had the experience. Without it, I'd probably be even more of an antisocial misanthrope than I already am! Yeah, it's hard to see why creationist parents wouldn't want their kids to know about evolution. Know your enemy and all that. If they really have conviction in their beliefs, they should have nothing to fear.Mutate and Survive

Give me a break. Public schools in the US tend to do not as well compared to homeschooled kids is because public schools have to take in ALL kinds of kids, everything from geniuses to stupids to the downright retards.I remember about 20 years ago there was a real public hype about how US students didn't do as well with test scores as their foreign counterparts. It puzzled me for a long time and then when I went to college the answer literally stared at me in the face. Foreign students only studied one subject and they get tested in just that subject while American students have to study everything from science to math to history to literature. The foreign students at my college told me they were surprised that they had to take all the electives like English and History even though they majored in science.In other words, the test scores are biased. The samples aren't comparable at all.I have a friend who immigrated to the states when he was about 12. He said that back then he couldn't speak a word of English but had to take these standardized tests. You know what he did? He filled in random bubbles. Of course his test scores brought down the overall average of the public schools.

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Regarding the lack of socialization, I think that the children are learning to be closed-minded by not being surrounded by differing opinions and worldviews. An example can be found in that article you posted:

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I've talked to homeschooled people before. While I cannot say this is so to all cases out there, I can say that all the cases I talked to showed a remarkable lack of interest in current events. They all seem to be clueless when it comes to terminologies like scientology and world cup. You should talk to them sometime. You will very quickly become frustrated of explaining to them even the most commonly known things out there. I know I was frustrated after a while.Added by edit.I vaguely remember someone telling me about a homeschool teacher on here who almost drove everyone to madness by her ignorance and lack of grammar skills. Anyone know who I'm talking about? Edited by Taz, : No reason given.Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

Homeschooling gives us people like Tim Tebow, who is soon to be (if not already) a household icon. The kid is a twat. He should be reason enough to not only heavily, I mean heavily, monitor homeschooling, but also legalize, worldwide, abortion.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"On a personal note I think he's the greatest wrestler ever. He's better than Lou Thesz, Gorgeous George -- you name it."-The Hulkster on Nature Boy Ric Flair

That's true. Also, there're no classmates to distract them from studying. Agreed. That's exactly why I proceeded to learn about it: I figured if it wasn't true, I could easily disprove it I was wrong though. You know, I've never thought of that before. There is an obvious racial disparity in test scores. This disparity is virtually non-existent among homeschooled students though. Being homeschooled, I can say that I'm an exception, but I know exactly what you're talking about. They also lack knowledge of things like pop culture — something that your average student loves talking about.

Being a homeschool child myself for the last 4 years of highschool there seems to be some misunderstanding of the homeschool movement.While yes, a large majority of homeschoolers, homeschool due to religious reasons this is not always the case. As far as their level of aptitude, it varies almost as much as does the aptitude of public or private schooled children. As as kid I remember meeting or hearing about some pretty stellar homeschoolers whose children went on to college, even Ivy league schools, at a very young age. However, I also met some kids who were dumber than a box of rocks.What were the factors that explain this range of aptitude?#1 The aptitude of the parent(s) who schooled them. Some were college educated with undergraduate, graduate and doctorate degrees while others barely graduated high school or were high school dropouts.#2 Usually (though not always), the more religiously fundamental the parents were, the fewer real sciences (not creationism) and secular studies these children were exposed too.I was fortunate enough to have both a mother and father who were college educated (father was retired Air Force and had a BA in Ministry, Master in Divinity, and a BA in Computer Science; mother attended Bible college and taken many courses in Child Psychology, History, Humanities and Archeology). My mother, though a Christian at the time, was not afraid to expose my brother and I to a wide variety of secular subjects and books. I read the gamet of classical books from Chaucer to Leo Tolstoy. In other words, a classical education. As a result of my mother's tutoring and self-education through high school, I was able to score a 29 on my ACT, a 1290 on my SAT and was granted a scholarship at a Christian Liberal Arts College studying pre-med. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Glad to meet another homeschooler. Don't worry, I understand the misconceptions — I know that there's variety among homeschooled people and that we're not all closed-minded clones. However, the fact that the majority of people homeschool their children because of religion leads me to believe that they're doing it for the wrong reasons and they're doing them a great disservice by keeping them sheltered from mainstream science. Don't you think this problem could be eliminated by ensuring that the parents are equipped to teach and are providing the right curriculum? It's good to hear they weren't fundies. I had to learn about evolution behind my parents' backs.

I think well-educated and well-rounded/grounded parents are a crucial component to a decent homeschool education. Too many religious parents with little to no formal education outside of high school think they can give there children an education on par or exceeding public school education. Very few if any can.A well-educated and informed parent can give a good education to there children (many of our founding fathers had this type of education). Going back to the classical system of education is a good way of accomplishing this i.e. critical thinking/logic/science/humanities/foreign language/english/math/etc.Also realize, not all children can thrive with this type of educational system. Developing self-discipline and critical thinking skills on both the part of the parent and the child are crucial for success. Parents must act as teacher, principle, tutor, counselor and classmate. It is not easy.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Hooah,Were you this angry as a child?What kind of comment is that about Tim Teabow?I could just as easily say that the public school system produces the likes of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, and yes, the worldwide abortion comment would apply in this case also.I don't agree with what probably 80% of the posters here say on various topics but you have a serious anger problem towards anything Christianity while you completely turn a blind eye to anything that a secularist might do. Also, you make ridiculous blanket statements such as this one and the one not too long ago about how nobody has ever killed in any other name but the name of God....did Harris and Klebold kill in the name of God??? I doubt it.

Toughen up champ. I'm not angry, you're just soft. What do you care? It was meant to imply that he is a dumbass creationist because of his homeschooling. but you see, my Tim Tebow reference was meant as a reference to his ignorance because he was taught religion, instead of school. I'm sorry if your avereage homeschooler is a fundy evangelical creo. He fits the stereotype perfectly. It only appears as being angry because i am attacking people of your ilk. you don't like it so you accuse me of being "angry" so as to play some sort of pity card. "big mean atheist (I'm surprisingly agnostic, actually) points out dumb things christians do. He's such a meanie!". I have requested, on more than one occasion, for any one of you to point out an event that you feel is representative of secularism/atheism that equals in nature the things I post. For example: show me someone who kills people IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM. I will galdly chastise them as well.My gripe with christians when they do this sort of thing in the name of YHWH is that you people are the ones who claim to have moral authority. You people are the ones saying that without god, there can be no morals. So yea, I do have a gripe with religion, christianity in particular as it is the main religion I have to face. So sorry if I call you all on your bluff. Show me where I said exactly that. I never once said any such thing. Stop lying. Red herring much?

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"On a personal note I think he's the greatest wrestler ever. He's better than Lou Thesz, Gorgeous George -- you name it."-The Hulkster on Nature Boy Ric Flair

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I will have to say my social skills as a young adult were rather lacking after the homeschool experience coupled with the constant moving. As a result, it has taken me a good 17+ years in the US Navy to help make up for it.

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I feel social skills are also dependent on personality.I felt mentally tormented by some fellow students throughout grade school. Consequently, I was a loner throughout high school. I had poor social skills. Pretty much a wall flower. A stint in the Marine Corps helped me. Oddly enough I ended up in the Public Affairs Office. My social skills are still not the best, but I'm old enough now I don't care. I stink at BS and am not much for one-upmanship, so I'm rather quiet in new encounters. I take too long editing what I'm going to say before I say it. In some cases that's good and in some not so much. I'm waiting for when I hit 70 or 80 and whatever I think just pops out of my mouth unedited.

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

Being a middle child with 2 brothers and a sister, a military kid who moved over 10 times by the time I was 18, and an introvert bookworm are not a good combination to being the most socially adept person out there. Though I am amiable, optimistic and upbeat I am still not a social animal like my wife is. I can hold my own in conversations but definately get my energy from "me time" vice "time spent with friends" like my wife.I have learned to balance my personal thoughts and my outward speach but it is not a trait that comes naturally to me. I am a INTJ (Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging) personality (same as Thomas Jefferson, JFK and C.S. Lewis).Hey this would make a good start of a thread: What Personality Profile are you. Will start this later today.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World