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Author Topic:   Is Jesus God?
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 1 of 2 (548001)
02-24-2010 6:53 PM


The question as to the identity of Jesus (Is he God or Gods Son) has been a debate that has raged for thousands of years. It is the very question that caused the church to become divided and turned members against each other to the point of executing those who became viewed as heretics for not believing in the trinity. It became an ugly chapter in the history of christianity and christians are still divided over the issue today.
From the 'Jesus is a failure' thread, EMA made the comment as follows
EMA writes:
All angles, prophets and Apostles rejected worship and deity designations, unlike Christ, who humbly accepted those actions by individuals, like Thomas, "My lord and my God".
the NT (especially the gospels)is simply to repleat, to desinate christ as anything but God. "In him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily". he si9mply was God here
There is good reason why this idea was, and is, strongly fought against. Early christians recognized that the teaching that Jesus was God, did not come from the writings of the Apostles or the words of Jesus. The catholic encyclopedia acknowledges this fact by stating the following:
The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) The Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. ... The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4thcentury.
Even those who teach the trinity have acknowledged that it is not an idea that comes from the scriptures. An Anglican bishop named John Robinson in his book 'Honest to God' wrote:
In practice popular preaching and teaching presents a supranaturalistic view of Christ which cannot be substantiated from the New Testament. It says simply that Jesus was God, in such a way that the terms ‘Christ’ and ‘God’ are interchangeable. But nowhere in Biblical usage is this so. The New Testament says that Jesus was the Word of God, it says that God was in Christ, it says that Jesus is the Son of God; but it does not say that Jesus was God, simply like that.
Because trinitarians use certain scritpures to back their claim, I think it would be good to compare the scritpures that trinitarians use. I beleive that every scritpure they may use, can be shown to not convey the meaning that trinitarians put to them.
the first scripture i'd like to put forward is EMA's verse from John where Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and My God" and reasons that because the apostles called Jesus God, that means he is God.
John 20:24-29 writes:
24But Thomas, one of the twelve, who was called The Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. 25Consequently the other disciples would say to him: We have seen the Lord! But he said to them: Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe.
26Well, eight days later his disciples were again indoors, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, although the doors were locked, and he stood in their midst and said: May YOU have peace. 27Next he said to Thomas: Put your finger here, and see my hands, and take your hand and stick it into my side, and stop being unbelieving but become believing. 28In answer Thomas said to him: My Lord and my God! 29Jesus said to him: Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe.
What could Thomas have meant by calling Jesus 'God' and is it wrong to do so? No i dont think it is for the fact that 'God' is just a title that means 'Mighty/Divine One'
Jesus was surely of divine origin and so Thomas could have been recognizing this fact. When we compare scritpures about the Messiah, he is called 'Mighty God' at Isaiah 9:6 For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace
its important to note that 'El Gib.bohr' is the hebrew word for 'Mighty God' whereas when the Hebrew speaks of the 'Almighty God' YWHY, it uses a different hebrew word which is 'El Shad.dai' as at Ge 17:1
So even when the hebrew writers spoke about the Messiah, they called him God, yet differentiated him between the 'Almighty YWHY'
John also calls Jesus a god in John 1:1 but he differentiated between THE God because he used the definite article 'ton' before one but not the other which indicated that he was speaking of two different Gods.
John gave further evidence that these two are different beings in John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him
So to understand Thomas's words, its a matter of understanding that the Messiah was of divine origin and could rightly be called, a god. 'god' is a title that means a divine being. Jesus was certainly a divine being for he even said that he was from heaven and that he existed with God before the founding of the world.
John 8:22 Jesus says writes:
‘Where I am going YOU cannot come.’ 23So he went on to say to them: YOU are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world
If anyone has more scriptures, please put them on the table and im pretty sure they can be shown to not mean what they are purported to mean.

AdminPD
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Message 2 of 2 (548052)
02-25-2010 7:41 AM


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Thread copied to the Is Jesus God? thread in the Faith and Belief forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

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