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Author Topic:   Question for Christians and Jews.
Godismyfather
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 6 (5333)
02-22-2002 10:46 PM


Ok, I am a Christian and believe in God w/ my whole heart (at least I try, but it's human nature to doubt). But I need to know the answer so I can try to believe and push the doubt. Does anyone know why God gave us and Lucifer a chance if He knew ahead of time that Lucifer would rebel and Eve would eat the apple? Especially the Lucifer one, he's the one who started it. So why'd He give him a chance? And why did He even mske the Tree of Knowledge if they couldn't eat from it and there'd always be a chance? Is it true the tree bore different fruit each month?If someone could answer that, I'd be very much apreaciative. Thanx.
P.S. I don't mind if atheists want to try to answer this by saying that God isn't real, but please don't be like "DUH!!! THE REASON IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO GOD, THERE IS NO LUCIFER, AND THERE NEVER WAS AN EVE!!"
------------------
God Bless,
Victoria

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by gene90, posted 02-22-2002 10:51 PM Godismyfather has not replied
 Message 6 by nator, posted 02-23-2002 9:01 AM Godismyfather has not replied

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 3845 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 2 of 6 (5336)
02-22-2002 10:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Godismyfather
02-22-2002 10:46 PM


What if "evil" is a necessary and unfortunate by-product of free will and that it (free will from the Tree of Life) was ultimately intended to be given to man? In which case Satan was a necessary accomplice in God's plan. The presence of evil on the post-Garden Earth simply being the product of people making the wrong choice, again a necessary and unfortunate result of the gift of free will. In that case, man is not being punished for Adam's decision but inherited the mixed blessings of his gift.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Godismyfather, posted 02-22-2002 10:46 PM Godismyfather has not replied

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 Message 3 by joz, posted 02-22-2002 11:22 PM gene90 has replied

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 6 (5339)
02-22-2002 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by gene90
02-22-2002 10:51 PM


Also if free will exsists there can be no predetermination....
Thus to use a Quantum mechanics analogy if God observed the future and KNEW that lucifer would turn against him etc then he had by the act of observing it collapsed the wave function predetermining the events occurence and eliminated free will....

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 Message 2 by gene90, posted 02-22-2002 10:51 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by gene90, posted 02-22-2002 11:52 PM joz has replied

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 3845 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 4 of 6 (5344)
02-22-2002 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by joz
02-22-2002 11:22 PM


Sometimes it just doesn't pay to open the box, does it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by joz, posted 02-22-2002 11:22 PM joz has replied

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joz
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 6 (5345)
02-23-2002 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by gene90
02-22-2002 11:52 PM


quote:
Originally posted by gene90:
Sometimes it just doesn't pay to open the box, does it?
Not unless you REALLY dislike cats.....

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nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 6 of 6 (5355)
02-23-2002 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Godismyfather
02-22-2002 10:46 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Godismyfather:
Ok, I am a Christian and believe in God w/ my whole heart (at least I try, but it's human nature to doubt). But I need to know the answer so I can try to believe and push the doubt. Does anyone know why God gave us and Lucifer a chance if He knew ahead of time that Lucifer would rebel and Eve would eat the apple? Especially the Lucifer one, he's the one who started it. So why'd He give him a chance? And why did He even mske the Tree of Knowledge if they couldn't eat from it and there'd always be a chance? Is it true the tree bore different fruit each month?If someone could answer that, I'd be very much apreaciative. Thanx.
P.S. I don't mind if atheists want to try to answer this by saying that God isn't real, but please don't be like "DUH!!! THE REASON IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO GOD, THERE IS NO LUCIFER, AND THERE NEVER WAS AN EVE!!"

I used to be a Christian, but I am an Agnostic, not an Atheist.
Did it ever occur to you that parts (especially Genesis), if not much, of the Bible are stories rather than literal truth? Allegory? Lessons? Beautiful, poetic, but not literal, expanations of how and why things came to be?
Isn't it the easy, simplistic way to read the Bible to read it literally rather than symbolically? If you read it as if every word is to be taken utterly at face value, some parts don't even make sense, such as Psalms, which is love poetry. Since when are you supposed to take poetry as literal?
There are many myths and stories which were passed down through many generations by ancient people which they used as explanations of why there is evil in the world, etc. What makes you so sure that your particular preferred story is any more literally true than any other?
Now, if you don't think that the story is literally true, then you have a theological problem. You are having a problem reconciling an all-knowing, all-powerful God who supposedly loves us, his children, with his allowing Satan to have any chance at all. If he is all-knowing, why did he create Eve to do what she did and then punish her for what she knew she would do? He set her up, IOW. So, the idea of free will is an illusion, because God is controlling everything, and God creates us with the knowledge that we will sin and make mistakes. Also, if God is all-knowing and all-powerful, then why can't he just crush Satan and end suffering and evil?
Well, this problem is one of the reasons I never was a Biblical literalist, and, frankly, why I am not a Christian.
I agree that this is a big problem to reconcile for the thinking Christian. OTOH, lots of Christians, I imagine, do manage to figure it all out. Good luck with it.
------------------
"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply
close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands
of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow-
minded."
-Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"

This message is a reply to:
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