Creationists Turn

quote:

---

I'm brand new to this site and am a Christian who until recently accepted,without question, evolution as the mechanism that God used to create all the life forms including humans on this earth. Now, on this site and others I'm hearing rational objections to the established dogma of evolution. In the above thread, those of you who support evolution did not appear to respond to the very logical observation that the bombadier beetle could not have evolved as required by the principles of evolution. Please respond to that issue. I would like to, earnestly and with openness, evaluate your answer. Thank you.

---

Then as a christian how do you explain original sin?------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

How about the fact that two co-orbiting masses are almost impossible to form through random processes?------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

quote:

---

ays who? That's not a "fact" as far as I've heard.

---

Uh, think about it.------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

Ok, ok I knew this was going to happen. Well for links you could find some info on answersingenesis.org
Well basically this is how I would explain this.
Well first you need your background on the beginning of the universe the Big Bang:

quote:

---

Fifteen billion years ago, the entirety of our universe was compressed into the confines of an atomic nucleus. Known as a singularity, this is the moment before creation when space and time did not exist. According to the prevailing cosmological models that explain our universe, an ineffable explosion, trillions of degrees in temperature on any measurement scale, that was infinitely dense, created not only fundamental subatomic particles and thus matter and energy but space and time itself. Cosmology theorists combined with the observations of their astronomy colleagues have been able to reconstruct the primordial chronology of events known as the big bang.

---

- big bang siteNow, so this explosion happened. What is the likelyhood that two co-orbiting masses could be formed through that explosion, or many of them in fact. That gravity stopped them into an orbit? It is nearly impossible to happen. What would be an explanation for binary objects? The fact that there are binary objects points to intelligent design does it not?------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 09-01-2003][This message has been edited by messenjaH, 09-01-2003]

quote:

---

Can I ask you something MJah?
Is answersingenesis website your sole source of information?

​

You do know that the wider your reading list the better you will understand a topic?

​

Brian.

---

I just listed a big bang site, lol no it isn't though probably the most used.------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

quote:

---

BINARIES
There is no way that stars could accidentally position themselves to carefully revolve about one another, yet over half of the stars are so arranged.

​

"Over half of the stars in our part of the universe are binary or multiple star systems. By studying the motion of binary stars, much can be learned about the stars considered individually."Jon K. West, "A Pre-main-sequence Stellar Model Applied to Close Binary Star Systems" in Creation Research Society Quarterly, June 1981, p. 15.

​

GALAXY FORMATION
Galaxies are immense, carefully organized collections of stars. Most are arranged into a disk shape. Evolution can account neither for their formation, nor how they hold together without crashing into one another or flying apart.

​

"Despite the optimism of the preceding chapters, there are a great many things that the cosmologist not only does not know, but finds severe difficulty in envisaging a path towards finding out. Even if we beg the question of how the universe started, how did it become as it is now? In particular, how did the galaxies form? The encyclopedias and popular astronomical books are full of plausible tales of condensations from vortices, turbulent gas clouds and the like, but the sad truth is that we do not know how the galaxies came into existence."*Laurie John (ed.), Cosmology Now (1976), p. 85.

​

"The other urgent task in cosmology [the producing of stellar theories] is to understand how in the more recent past great masses of gas collapsed to form galaxies and clusters of galaxies."*James Binney, "Oddballs and Galaxy Formation," Nature, 255:275 (1975).

​

"Now some writers have discussed the possibility that some irregularity of density was present in the universe from the outset and that this led ultimately to the occurrence of galaxies. This idea has not achieved any success, since it assumes practically all that is to be inferred."*Laurie John (ed.), Cosmology Now (1976), p. 92.

​

"Nor is it understood why elliptical galaxies seem to have many more globular clusters per unit of mass than spiral galaxies. The observation is of particular significance because it argues against a popular theory of how the ellipticals formed. Alar Tommre of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and other investigators have proposed that the elliptical galaxies are formed when spiral galaxies collide and merge. The strongest evidence against this hypothesis is the higher proportion of clusters in the ellipticals."*Ivan R. King, "Globular Clusters," Scientific American, 252:79, June 1985.

​

"There is much doubt, however, that galaxies evolve from one type to another at all."*George Abell, Exploration of the Universe, 2nd Ed. (1969), p. 629.

​

"Our conclusions, then, are that the sequence of the classification of galaxies is not an evolutionary sequence."*Paul W. Hodge, Physics and Astronomy of Galaxies and Cosmology (1966), p. 122.

​

"A completely satisfactory theory of galaxy formation remains to be formulated." *Joseph Silk, The Big Bang (1980), p. 22.

​

"The problem of explaining the existence of the galaxies has proved to be one of the thorniest in cosmology. By all rights, they just shouldn't be there, yet there they sit. It's hard to convey the depth of frustration that this simple fact induces among scientists."*James Trefil, Dark Side of the Universe (1988), p. 55.

​

"It turns out that in almost every case the velocities of the individual galaxies are high enough to allow them to escape from the cluster. In effect, the clusters are `boiling.' This statement is certainly true if we assume that the only gravitational force present is that exerted by visible matter, but it is true even if we assume that every galaxy in the cluster, like the Milky Way, is surrounded by a halo of dark matter that contains 90 percent of the mass of the galaxy."*James Trefil, Dark Side of the Universe (1988), p. 93.

​

"The array of observational facts must be explained by a satisfactory theory [on the evolution of the solar system], and the theory must be consistent with the principles of dynamics and modern theory if properly applied."*Fred L. Whipple, Earth, Moon, and Planets (3rd Ed., 1968), p. 243.

---

-pathlightsThat should explain why I feel this way, see it is nearly impossible for that to happen.------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

Or howabout this guys inferences on The big bang theory. Including binaries:http://www.youdebate.com/cgi-bin/scarecrow/topic.cgi?foru...No evolutionist has responded either I might add.------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

My opinion seems to be shared by many scientists.

By random processes it is almost impossible to form binary objects. As sources I've quoted above for proof.------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

quote:

---

Because binary objects are being formed even now.

---

Really? Where? It seems you are committing the crimes you accused me of.[This message has been edited by messenjaH the leader of evcforum, 09-01-2003][This message has been edited by messenjaH, 09-01-2003]