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Author Topic:   Is biblegod pro life?
ochaye
Member (Idle past 5268 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 4 of 59 (528232)
10-05-2009 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RCS
10-05-2009 3:36 AM


'"If some men are fighting and hurt a pregnant woman so that she loses her child, but she is not injured in any other way, the one who hurt her is to be fined whatever amount the woman's husband demands, subject to the approval of the judges. But if the woman herself is injured, the punishment shall be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."' Ex 21:22-25 GNB
The concern here is not with murder, but with manslaughter, accidental death. A man who is fighting another, whose wife intervenes and receives a blow from him that kills a foetus, does not intend for the harmless foetus to die. There was economic loss in such cases (potentially, anyway- childbirth was hazardous before modern times), so reparation was necessary. However, if the man used sufficient force to kill the wife, the standard law of lex talionis applied, because it was reckonable as murder.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RCS, posted 10-05-2009 3:36 AM RCS has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Izanagi, posted 10-05-2009 11:33 AM ochaye has replied
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ochaye
Member (Idle past 5268 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 6 of 59 (528261)
10-05-2009 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Izanagi
10-05-2009 11:33 AM


Re: The point is...
quote:
a man committing manslaughter (accidental death) of the woman.
That would not be accidental, it would be murder, not manslaughter, therefore lex talionis would apply.
Now is this distinction too difficult for readers to comprehend? Or is it too difficult for skeptics to accept?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Izanagi, posted 10-05-2009 11:33 AM Izanagi has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Modulous, posted 10-05-2009 12:04 PM ochaye has replied
 Message 9 by cavediver, posted 10-05-2009 12:09 PM ochaye has not replied
 Message 10 by Izanagi, posted 10-05-2009 12:26 PM ochaye has replied

  
ochaye
Member (Idle past 5268 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 11 of 59 (528271)
10-05-2009 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Modulous
10-05-2009 12:04 PM


Re: The point is...
quote:
But killing an unborn child under the same circumstances is not murder
If abortion takes place by accident, the same circumstances apply. But pre-meditated abortion is completely different, and some people think it is murder, unless there are good medical grounds for termination.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Modulous, posted 10-05-2009 12:04 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
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ochaye
Member (Idle past 5268 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 12 of 59 (528272)
10-05-2009 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Izanagi
10-05-2009 12:26 PM


Re: The point is...
quote:
I'm sorry
Is that the truth?
quote:
the legal definition of manslaughter is
manslaughter the slaying of a man: unlawful homicide without malice aforethought (law) Chambers Dict.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Izanagi, posted 10-05-2009 12:26 PM Izanagi has replied

Replies to this message:
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ochaye
Member (Idle past 5268 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 29 of 59 (528567)
10-06-2009 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Perdition
10-06-2009 11:34 AM


Re: Born Early, Not Dead
quote:
According to the Bible, while God may allow and even need/want free will, he is not above punishing people for choosing something he doesn't like.
According to the Bible, God punishes people for choosing something that people don't like. According to the Bible, God does not condemn people for what their own consciences do not condemn them for. Surely, he cannot do so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Perdition, posted 10-06-2009 11:34 AM Perdition has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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ochaye
Member (Idle past 5268 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 33 of 59 (528595)
10-06-2009 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Izanagi
10-06-2009 1:56 PM


Re: Born Early, Not Dead
quote:
there are people out there with no compunction about murder
The Bible describes such people as having seared, deadened consciences. But those consciences will, we may suppose, be revived.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Izanagi, posted 10-06-2009 1:56 PM Izanagi has replied

Replies to this message:
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ochaye
Member (Idle past 5268 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 36 of 59 (528628)
10-06-2009 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Izanagi
10-06-2009 2:17 PM


Re: Born Early, Not Dead
quote:
some sociopaths are born without a conscience
They are?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Izanagi, posted 10-06-2009 2:17 PM Izanagi has replied

Replies to this message:
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ochaye
Member (Idle past 5268 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 38 of 59 (528664)
10-06-2009 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Izanagi
10-06-2009 3:48 PM


Re: Born Early, Not Dead
quote:
Well, perhaps genetically predisposed towards antisocial behavior is a better way of saying it
A way of misrepresenting it.
Again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Izanagi, posted 10-06-2009 3:48 PM Izanagi has replied

Replies to this message:
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ochaye
Member (Idle past 5268 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 50 of 59 (528872)
10-07-2009 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Izanagi
10-07-2009 8:47 AM


Re: Final Thoughts on the Subject
God's will is clear enough, according to the Bible, which states that nothing in this world, not even life itself, is worth a bad conscience, and if people in the past died to show that, it's a pretty good demonstration for people today, for whom God offers salvation from a bad conscience through Christ.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Izanagi, posted 10-07-2009 8:47 AM Izanagi has not replied

  
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