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Author Topic:   The phrase "Evolution is a fact"
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 6 of 217 (487450)
10-31-2008 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by boysherpa
10-31-2008 1:05 PM


If Evolution is a theory, it cannot be a fact.
The theory of gravity is a theory.
Gravity is not a theory.
Gravity is a fact.
The theory of evolution is a theory.
Evolution is not a theory.
Evolution is a fact.

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 102 of 217 (515219)
07-16-2009 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by boysherpa
07-13-2009 10:17 AM


Re: my observations
There seem to be some conflicting views on facts and reasoning (inference, deduction, induction, etc.). I may have it wrong, but it would seem to me that a particular progressive set of fossils or measurements from them constitute a set of facts, but the reasoning from those facts do not.
If you are going to go down this route, you would end up concluding that the only forms facts can take are:
* I am experiencing certain qualia (which may be the product of hallucination).
* I possess a certain memory (which may be erroneous).
* I am having a certain thought (which may be wrong).
All else is inference.
Early posts indicate the confusion in the use of the terms fact and theory. A fact, in common scientific usage, is a measurable agreed upon and repeatable.
No. If that was the case then I couldn't say that it was a fact that, for example, Lincoln was assassinated by John Wilkes Booth. Or that I ate pizza yesterday.
When it becomes necessary to redefine the word "fact" so that it no longer has its normal usage in order to argue that evolution is not a fact, this is a sign that evolution, in normal usage, is a fact.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 103 of 217 (515220)
07-16-2009 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Rrhain
07-15-2009 12:57 AM


Since we can see speciation happen, we can observe macroevolution directly. Reproductive isolation, for example, is "macroevolution" since it is involved in speciation. We have observed reproductive isolation occur in as few as 13 generations.
Reference please?
Thanks.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 111 of 217 (516195)
07-24-2009 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by crawler30
07-23-2009 11:50 PM


I`m not sure I understand what you are saying. Evolution hapens on it`s own through natural processes (natural selection, climate, etc.) not by purposfully introducing something different into a population. Such as dog breeding, is that or is not intelligent design?
No, that's just artificial selection.
But in what way have we acctually obsereved as scientists the effects of evolution without any outside influence.
Many of the best-studied small-scale evolutionary events are of the evolution of resistance to toxins such as antibiotics and pesticides, which obviously we did not bring about deliberately.
But the fact remains that if you leave things to their own devices man has never noted any significant changes in a population over time.
This is not actually true.
And if we had then natural selection would be thrown out the window because appearently it happens faster than, natural selection would allow for an entire population to change into a new spieces.
This is not grammatical, which may explain why I have no idea what you mean by it.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 117 of 217 (516503)
07-25-2009 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by crawler30
07-24-2009 11:06 AM


But see the point is that the mainstream Darwinian view of evolution says that life changes on accident, but how can you explain this when you point out the nylon eating bacteria? A new niche opened up for an organizm to fill, so it was filled by a bacteria whom never existed before. This would lead me to believe that it purposefully happened because there was a reason to have happened.
The trouble is that there's no mechanism which allows the right mutation to happen just because it's a good idea. How would the bacteria know?
On the other hand, there is a mechanism (or perhaps I should say the failure of a mechanism) which produces mutations (good, bad, and neutral) at random: natural selection then selects those which are a good idea.
For instance, what reason would this species have come into being, obviously they had enough food to survive as they were so why the new diet?
It came into being by chance.
To see why it was favored by selection, consider the following. You say that the species "obviously had enough food to survive". This is true, but remember that selection operates on individuals. Just because the species has enough food to survive and reproduce doesn't mean that every individual has enough food to survive and reproduce --- indeed, this cannot be so, for otherwise the original population of bacteria would grow exponentially, which is impossible while their supply of food remains constant. (It was this consideration that led Darwin to think up his theory in the first place.)
The first bacterium to get the nylonase mutation had a supply of food for which it had no competitors. There is always a selective advantage to moving into an empty niche.
---
I hope this helps.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 122 of 217 (521276)
08-26-2009 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by God of Pokiphlanon
08-26-2009 5:30 PM


Re: Not true
Will you give me some examples of things that you think are facts?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by God of Pokiphlanon, posted 08-26-2009 5:30 PM God of Pokiphlanon has replied

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 131 of 217 (523411)
09-10-2009 4:19 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by PetersDenial
09-09-2009 7:52 PM


In the strictest sense, you can only ever disprove a theory.
As Popper admitted, you can't even do that, "in the strictest sense", because one can always provide an ad hoc argument against any evidence contrary to any theory.
Perhaps we should take this one to my "The Scientific Method For Beginners" thread, where this point has already been discussed.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 186 of 217 (524344)
09-16-2009 2:18 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by Archangel
09-15-2009 10:27 AM


You evos are very wordy people since it takes a lot of words to sound scientific.
The great thing about our cunning plan to sound scientific is that we've managed to fool the world's scientists.
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!
But somehow you, whose knowledge of science can only be expressed as a negative number, since everything you think you know about it is nonsense that's been fed to you by creationists --- you can see through our little charade.
It must be nice for you to know more about science than the world's community of scientists do collectively. It must be even more of a boost to your ego to have achieved this without ever having spent a moment actually studying the subjects you're prating on about.
For example, having never spent a moment studying taphonomy, and knowing nothing at all about it --- do you even know the word? --- you still feel confident enough to bullshit us about it. What a great genius you must be, to be sure.

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 Message 175 by Archangel, posted 09-15-2009 10:27 AM Archangel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Archangel, posted 09-16-2009 9:46 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 190 of 217 (524425)
09-16-2009 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Archangel
09-16-2009 9:46 AM


I don't believe the fossil record shows this organized and gradual record of evolution as you assert it does.
Whereas people who study rocks --- they're called geologists --- think it does. And people who study fossils --- they're called paleontologists --- think it does.
Here's the rub DA, a scientific knowledge isn't necessary or required ...
And here's the rub, Archangel. Scientific knowledge is necessary and required to engage in a scientific discussion.
But if, on the other hand, all you want to do is scream halfwitted nonsense about how science is "a lie" and "the epitome of fraud" and "a pseudo science", then your complete, total, pitiful ignorance of science will suffice.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 191 of 217 (524427)
09-16-2009 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Archangel
09-16-2009 9:46 AM


Is this what you call a rebuttal to my time lapse video showing that even with protection from predators, a rabbit is devoured by insects within 7 days?
Why yes. The fact that you've never bothered to study the subject that you're drooling on about is in fact a good reason to ignore your drivel.
And speaking of tree rings, Can you explain why, in such a old earth, no trees have survived past 8000 years anywhere according to this link, with the previous oldest at around 5000 years old?
Yes. Obviously I can.
They have survived two thousand years longer than Biblical chronology allows for the age of the Earth because Biblical chronology is a load of crap.

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Replies to this message:
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