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Member (Idle past 3017 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: If you were God, what kind of God would you be? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Peg Member (Idle past 4951 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Granny magda writes: It's a simple thing to admit, but some Christians have trouble with it for some reason. you may have seen the discussion in the fundamentalist thread where this 'supposed' raping of women was commanded by God the fact is its not the case at all rape is clearly forbidden in the bible, in fact it holds the same punishment as a murderer which shows that God in no way permitted it. Read the account of Judges chpt 20 where a civil war broke out because a woman was raped and when the nation heard about it they took action against the isrealite men involved ..."take action by going against Gib′eah of Benjamin, in view of all the disgraceful folly that they did in Israel. 11Thus all the men of Israel were gathered against the city as one man, as allies." The mosaic law was clear that a rapist was to be put to death Deut 22:25"If... the man grabbed hold of her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her must also die by himself...because just as when a man rises up against his fellowman and indeed murders him, even a soul, so it is with this case" For anyone to say that God commanded men/soldiers to rape women is nothing but slander... perhaps this is why christians are not bothering with the question being posed. I wont be making any reply's to this post either because its been done to death in the other thread.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 858 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
Peg writes: For anyone to say that God commanded men/soldiers to rape women is nothing but slander... perhaps this is why christians are not bothering with the question being posed. I wont be making any reply's to this post either because its been done to death in the other thread. Interesting. All that is asked is if a creationist/fundamentalist would make a simple statement against rape. Strange that none can actually do it, obviously their false pride precludes them from defending morality. I was hoping you would be the first to officially renounce rape under all circumstances. Evidently my faith was misplaced. The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes. Salman Rushdie This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Hi Peg,
I notice that nowhere in your post did you actually find it in yourself to say that rape is wrong or bother to utter the words "Don't rape Suzy". The nearest you get is claiming that the Bible forbids it, which it does only half-heartedly, presenting it alongside the notorious instances of divinely ordained rape.
quote: This is of course a lie.
quote: Don't waste your time telling me grotesque and facile lies. We all know what it says in the verse down the page;
Deut 28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. {NIV} Of course marrying the victim is a little tricky when you've murdered them... I guess the punishments were not quite the same.
quote: Except that Bluejay and Bailey seem not to have had trouble responding. This kind of apologetic for rape (along with similar efforts for slavery and genocide) disgusts me, especially when it is being promoted by a woman. Please, spare me. If I want to vomit, I'll just stick my fingers down my throat. It's quicker. Mutate and Survive "A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod
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Peg Member (Idle past 4951 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
and of course rape is wrong, its as wrong as murder and i'd like to see our laws tightened up in regard to it, unfortunately they are very lax
God had a death penalty because he considers it a vile act...Jesus loved and respected women because God loves and respects women although i dont care for my own opinion, but when ppl start sprouting around that God commanded it and condones it, then i do feel the need to speak up. He doesnt condone it or command period and i feel sorry for anyone who believes this is the case.
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
I thought I asked you to stop lying. Maybe I imagined it.
quote: God had a death penalty for some rapes. In other cases, the "penalty" was to marry the victim. Hardly an appropriate response to a "vile act". The fact that you seem to think that "forbidden by God" and "morally wrong" are synonyms seems to me to be the root of the problem here. Mutate and Survive "A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4698 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
Peg writes:
The Deuteronomy verse you quoted doesn't reveal God's love for women at all. God had a death penalty because he considers it a vile act...Jesus loved and respected women because God loves and respects women Here is the whole verse:
quote:Now why would you leave out the part about the woman being engaged? Maybe, because it changes the meaning of the passage and doesn't help out your argument? It's not about the rape at all. It's about sex with another man's wife or betrothed. In fact the whole section is about inappropriate sex only with regards to how it affects the men associated with the women involved in the sex. quote:Embarrassment to her father, apparently. quote:Violated the husband's rights. quote:Violated the rights of the girl's future husband. Notice the complete lack of concern for the girl herself. quote:The father's rights were violated so he gets paid money while the girl gets the reward of being married for the rest of her life to the man who raped her. Sounds like a good way to get the woman of your dreams. Looks like Dr. Adequate has a stumbled on a method to get sex from Suzy for a long time to come. Still...I don't think he should rape her. I agree that it is morally repugnant despite the tacit condoning by God to use it as an engagement announcement. And...to give, at least, lip service to the OP....I would be a God who provides laws that protect women and men equally.
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Drosophilla Member (Idle past 3663 days) Posts: 172 From: Doncaster, yorkshire, UK Joined: |
In reply to the earlier hypothetical;
Should I rape suzy Add another to the growing list of those who say "Absolutely not!" Anyone who needs to consult an ancient book to work out the answer to this question cannot possibly hold any sort of moral compass at all. And to return to the OP - if I were god then I would ensure all humans would have this inbuilt moral compass so they didn't need to constantly seek guidance that i pervesely refuse so often to answer. My very first post here by the way; the subject matter incensed me into action....
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 306 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
although i dont care for my own opinion, but when ppl start sprouting around that God commanded it and condones it, then i do feel the need to speak up. He doesnt condone it or command period and i feel sorry for anyone who believes this is the case. When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will. (Deuteronomy 21:10-14)
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3017 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
One final thought on the god that most at the EVC Froum have chosen to be.
Our great apostasy seems to consist primarily in making a god of self; and he is the most valuable friend who will draw us most from self-seeking -- self-pleasing -- and self-dependence, and help us to restore to God the authority we have robbed Him of.
Memoirs of the Life of Rev. Charles Simeon - 1848
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9144 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
Not willing to comment about Suzy?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
There's also the nearby Deuteronomy 20:10-14:
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you. --Percy
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Michamus Member (Idle past 5179 days) Posts: 230 From: Ft Hood, TX Joined: |
John 10:10 writes:
I can imagine myself as a god just as well as I can imagine what my life was like before I was born.
(1) What kind of God would you be if you could be God?
John 10:10 writes:
To imagine the cosmos as having been created is just as possible as my previously mentioned imagination.
(2) What kind of cosmos would you have created?
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Michamus Member (Idle past 5179 days) Posts: 230 From: Ft Hood, TX Joined: |
I would say: "Don't rape Suzy!" It is morally, an ethically wrong.
I mean seriously, you could probably find a hooker that looks just like her.(Christian)
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2720 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, Peg.
Peg writes: Read the account of Judges chpt 20 where a civil war broke out because a woman was raped... I think this is a strange example to choose, because, when that particular war was concluded, and only 600 men and no women of the tribe of Benjamin remained, the Israelites didn't want one tribe to go extinct. So, this was their solution (the very next chapter):
quote: It's not exactly rape in the the most technical sense of the word, but distinguishing this from rape takes a lot of unscrupulous hair-splitting. Edited by Bluejay, : Added parenthetical. -Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 306 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
One final thought on the god that most at the EVC Froum have chosen to be. One non-final thought on the God that a minority of posters on this forum have chosen to be:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. --- Isaiah 45:7 Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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