Summations Only

And that resinous wood is?Now do you see the problem?

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Do you accept there was a bronze age, followed by an iron age?How do you know what level metal forging was in Noah's day? If he knew advance metallurgy why did he not pass it on? Where the heck are the remnants of this magic boat? We should be able to find the metal remnants. Some sort of copper alloy would be good metal to use on his boat. Copper alloys are much more resistant to weather than iron and some extent even steel. Where is the evidence?

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

And probably all first cousins.Ha ha.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Not yet??? Not yet??You pompous, self righteous...
No not worth getting banned. Do you not understand?? A lot of us do not care about your jesus inspired Pauline mumbo-jumbo.What we do enjoy is your jumping through logical hoops, torturing the bible, and all nonsensical explanations you must conjure in order to justify your beliefs.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Non sequitur. I'm not suggesting you should care. I'm suggesting that the anglagards viewpoint that Jesus and Paul delivered irreconcilable messages arises out of his not yet having integrated the two into one congruent message. Fine. Now point out what they are - in topic.

The premise of this thread is that a seaworthy boat of the proscribed Biblical design and dimensions is impossible. But where so many variables are involved demonstrating zero probability isn't possible, and it takes only a teeny tiny but non-zero probability to prove the premise wrong.Believers in the Biblical stories who are of a scientific mind tend to enforce some odd constraints. They believe in miracles, but when they enter the creation/evolution debate they think that what was miraculous in the Bible must also be scientifically possible. That's why they only require that something not be scientifically impossible. Real world evidence doesn't enter into it. If it's not impossible and if the Bible said it happened, then that's what happened.This is why this thread is full of incredible claims about the technology and shipbuilding skills of ancient Middle Eastern desert traders. It isn't impossible that Noah had access to shipbuilding technologies we're unaware of today, or that he somehow developed them himself (as well as anticipating the need for them), and this is all that creationists require to be satisfied. As far as they're concerned, the speculations they've offered are more than sufficient to have cast doubt on claims of the impossibility of the ark, and so the premise of this thread fails. If pressed, I'd be forced to agree with them.Pushing and prodding Iano and ICANT and Peg into corners from which they're forced to make up even more fantastical proposals is where this thread is going. The more interesting discussion would be about why they're willing to entertain such wild ideas, but clearly their ideas don't seem wild to them and so this discussion could never happen.--Percy

Nonsense. According to Strong's "gopher" comes from an unused root that probably meant "to house in." Strong's defines the word as "the wood from which the ark was made, meaning and exact type unknown." Even Gesenius states the his association of the word with "pitch trees" is speculative. Gesenius speculates that gopher wood may have been pine, fir, cypress, cedar or other wood used in shipbuilding. But you know better than Strong and Gesenius. If? What do you mean "If gopher is related..." You said that we know what gopher wood is, not that we guess what it may have been. Further, "resinous wood" doesn't tell us what wood it was.You see, we just don't know. It's a myth anyway.Edited by pandion, : No reason given.

I don't think that's true. But on the other hand, mythical people do turn up in the mythical genealogies of mythical people.

Apart from a post from RAZD, could you link me to where I was pushed and prodded (on-topically) by anyone? I thought it'd be a bit of fun to dance a 'what's-eminently-feasible' dance. But it seems that most would prefer to take refuge behind "if it ain't been done then it's not doable" neglecting the fact that the ark, if true, would represent a unique, never-to-be-repeated exercise.If you have some insight into why raft should be considered fantastical then I'd be interested in your comments.

Rather than a "if it ain't been done then it's not doable" mentality, I thin it's more a long the lines of, "IF it was done once, why wouldn't they have continued doing so?"If Noah learned some special way of building boats, and his family was all that was left after the Flud, why didn't this knowledge survive? Did they decide it was a great method, but no one would ever need to sail on a big body of water again, so it wasn't a necessary thing to know?

No, no, no...you have it all wrong. They (Noah's family) figured if someone else were to need the knowlege of how to build this type of watercraft, god would provide them with said knowledge, just like he told Noah, negating Noah's need to spread the knowledge. He figured anyone following after him would justhave to figure it out on his own.In the IT field, it's called "job security". Noah was the only one sacred enough to be privy to this newfangled way of shipbuilding.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

And metallurgy, and engineered timber products, and adhesive technology, to name just a few things he evidently developed but neglected to pass on.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

It's how you decide "what's eminently feasible" that is most interesting. If in some post apocalyptic future you were one of a large group of people discussing how to preserve on a boat as much as possible of what was left of civilization with waters from global warming rising to wipe out surviving pockets of humanity, 450 foot long wooden boats would sound as ridiculous to you as they do to everyone else.But if it's the ark of the Bible, then a 450 foot long wooden boat makes perfect sense to you.Why is that?--Percy

It wasn't a boat - it was a liferaft. And if boat it what was required then there are far better ways to make them than building a raft. The reason it wasn't done again was that there was no reason to do it again.We're all agreed that a watertight hull filled with air costs less in material and provides more storage volume than a raft. Given that need that is what got built.You got any technical objections to a big raft?Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Well I believe the original Hebrew is "tebah". According to Strongs that translates to "box". I can see a big boat called a box. But a life raft? This is a stretch, even for you.I am sure others will have more comments on your life raft idea.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts