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Member (Idle past 2728 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Sin | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Phage0070 Inactive Member |
Bluejay writes:
1000 years is "endless"? You mentioned that it obviously wasn't "eternal" and I ignored it, because it didn't address anything I had claimed at all. I never claimed that Mormons were tormented endlessly, I said they were tormented. Once you seemingly conflated the prison with the Telestial Kingdom I pointed out that I didn't think you were correct in doing so, since it would imply that the torment was eternal. This is because I *clearly* understood that it was NOT!
You didn’t know that eternal and endless had a non-conventional meaning in the scriptures when you posted your argument, and, consequently, your argument was wrong. Bluejay writes:
Right, ok. The words are irrelevant, it is whatever you say it says. Would this be because you are... special?
Religious texts can say, wrath of God, when neither God nor anybody’s temper is involved, and still be teaching a correct principle. Bluejay writes:
What about:
Mormons believe that the torment and suffering we will feel is the direct result of our own actions, not something that God does to us.LDS Website writes:
LDS.org
"Those who choose not to repent but who are not sons of perdition will remain in spirit prison until the end of the Millennium, when they will be freed from hell and punishment and be resurrected to a telestial glory."quote: What is the meaning of the Book of Mormon scriptures on eternal hell for the wicked? writes:
LDS.org
"Among those at death who are assigned to hell are the heirs of the telestial kingdom and the sons of perdition. These spirits will remain in hell, or spirit prison, suffering the wrath of Almighty God until the millennial reign is over. (See D&C 76:106.)"- H. Donl Peterson, professor of Ancient Scripture, Brigham Young University. Encyclopedia of Mormonism/edited by Daniel H. Ludlow. writes:
Encyclopedia of Mormonism The scriptures state that God sends cursings, judgments, and destruction upon the unbelieving and the rebellious, including all who reject the Savior or his prophets and are not willing to confess his hand in all things (D&C 1:6-13;59:21;63:6;88:85;104:8;124:48, 52; Moses 7:1) I think it is very clear that the Mormon concept of God punishes people for 1000 years, based on their actions. It isn't "nature" doing it, it is God. Feel free to cite your sources as well.
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Phage0070 Inactive Member |
Michamus writes:
I would not dispute that your imagination is vivid.
Perhaps it is poetic language, just as it is when mentioning what occurs when "prompted by the spirit". I would imagine the suffering of eternal fire would be more a statement of their extreme sorrow at where their actions have led them. Michamus writes:
Wouldn't accusing someone of presenting a straw man argument before they have presented one be, in and of itself, a straw man argument?
I highly doubt you are really that dim though, and this is merely your feeble attempt at providing yet another straw-man argument. Michamus writes:
Except of course that I am quoting LDS doctrine from official sources to back up my arguments.
You have had to resort to this method of "debate" with bluejay from the very beginning, due to your OBVIOUS misinformation on LDS Doctrine. Michamus writes:
So to sum this up. You messed up, refused to admit it, and are now trying to point the blame elsewhere... Given your history on such actions, I see no point in further discussion with you, as it will only continue in a downward trend.Phage0070 writes:
Check. Maybe I should write a book of prophecy. Honestly, I don't know what else you can try other than to accuse me of unforgivable rudeness and being generally impossible to deal with. Then you can refuse to respond and make it out to be my fault. Edited by Phage0070, : No reason given.
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Phage0070 Inactive Member |
Michamus writes:
That never stopped any of the prophets I have heard of.
Not really a prophecy if you prophesied about the wrong person, now is it?
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Phage0070 Inactive Member |
quote:Aha, there we go. That would have shorted discussion considerably had it been presented earlier. This does bring up an odd thought; there are several sections in the Doctrine and Covenants where changes are made to the belief system. One example would be baptism, which is in essence a "new" eternal deal. Does this mean God punished people previous to the announcement and it was retconned back, or that people only assumed it read like it meant before? If it is the latter, if it is changed again at some later point would it again be the latter?
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Phage0070 Inactive Member |
ICANT writes:
So then would you ignore "sins" that do not have real consequences? For instance: Suppose I act as equally moral as another Christian (perhaps even more so than some) and yet daily I think "Damn you God, damn you to hell!" and mean it. Yes sin has real consequences. What "real consequences" does this have? Who is harmed by it, or what negative physical repercussions can we expect to measure?
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Phage0070 Inactive Member |
"But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.
Mark 3:29, NIV" I appears that you consider the Bible to be important and your god to be real, so it would follow that you consider this to be a sin. As I don't believe in God, I don't believe that "sin" exists.
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Phage0070 Inactive Member |
ICANT writes:
Of course not, I don't believe they don't exist because there is a complete lack of evidence, and a high likelihood of their non-existence. I, as opposed to others, have no confusion over the order in that regard.
Does your belief make it a fact that they don't exist? ICANT writes:
Ok, fine. Modify the statement to "Damn the Holy Spirit, damn it to Hell!" What real-world impact does that have if it is a sin? Don't try to wriggle out of this question.
BTW that is when you commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. ICANT writes:
Then you also know I don't care what your crazy little sect believes is or isn't God, or what will happen if I think ill of it.
You do know I believe in a God so I will warn you about that one, but you go ahead and do whatever your little mind decides to do.
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Phage0070 Inactive Member |
ICANT writes:
It is a combination of a desire to help others, and a desire to correct wrongs in the world. So much waste and hardship is present in the world caused by religion, by belief in imaginary things, it is amazing. I argue because I truly believe you and your kind are holding back the development of humanity through willful ignorance.
Why do atheist like yourself spend so much of your life argueing about something you do not believe exists. ICANT writes:
Then point it out why don't you? I'm not going to play "20 Questions" to find out what every crackpot decides to imagine today.
There is only one unpardonable sin ICANT writes:
Well that is rather vague.
I will remind you of this statement at some point in your future.
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Phage0070 Inactive Member |
ICANT writes:
Then tell me why it requires a real, physical event that affect other people in order for it to be a sin? What is that real, physical event?
I have to you. It is found in John 3:18.
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Phage0070 Inactive Member |
Rahvin writes:
...I don't see where ICANT has ever made such a claim. I think you may be attacking a strawman.ICANT writes:
It is just buried under several posts of "Whaat? I don't know what you are talking about."
Sin (bad things) does have real consequences.... Yes sin has real consequences. - Message 114 Rahvin writes:
No, I am asking what real consequence the specific act of unforgivable sin will have. I don't think that ICANT will be able to provide a real consequence, rather he/she will provide an imaginary one.
The idea that a sin must be a physical act that has a specifically detrimental effect on other people is not the Christian concept of sin.
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