Unitended racism

It would also help to remove racism at the political level.The racism at that level, the deciding level that can make changes to even the playing fields for minorities, is masked into many factors.I don't know if this is a direct racism based on color or ethnicity, or if this is simply the upper class shiting on the lower class, and as such it gives the illusion of racism?Inner city schools are under funded, crime is at it's highest in these areas and the police force is also under funded. Poverty is the norm, drugs are the norm, gangs are the norm...in conditions like these it's no wonder minorities stay oppressed.However, the government doesn't care and little is don't to actually correct this problem. Oh they make a big deal about it; talk about how it's a priority, a cause for concern, much investing will be made, yada yada yada. Nothing ever gets done.Lets also not look past the constant push for minorities, especially black males/females, to join sports. Yet there is little push for an academic education.So of all the youth in the inner city, maybe 10% makes it to college - most for sports? Of that a percentage graduate? They then hit a job market with predominantly white, middle class to upper class people.I'll have to agree with Rahvin and Taz, at this point, if both candidates for the job are equally qualified, a judgement call by the employer is made. Not in all case, but in many. Especially when the jobs are for an executive level.With the chips stacked up against minorities from the moment they leave the womb, as opposed to their white counter parts, does a little bias in a positive way, based on their color, for once, make that big a deal?- Oni

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Wait, how is her test scores for Princeton and Yale relevant to her directly getting the job as Justice?I'd say you have an argument for her getting into Princeton and Yale, but not as a Justice.And as far as the Princeton and Yale argument, if you go there, certainly it can be expected, generally speaking, that a Puerto Rican born person whos first language is not English will not score as well as most of the privilaged students at Princeton and Yale, right?But see how awesome it was to let her in the schools, She's now a SC Justice. Doesn't that prove that when given equal opportunities, any one from any race can succeed? The point is that conditions have to be made to equal the playing fields, do they not?- Oni

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If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little.
~George Carlin

But she still had to do well in school. She still had to do well as a judge. She still had to progress in her career on her own merit, so her final destination had more to do with her own acheivements than simply getting into a good school. Then her own acheivements got her to the SC position and not simply getting into a good school. But it does and that was the whole point of AA.President Lyndon B. Johnson:

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Men and women of all races are born with the same range of abilities. But ability is not just the product of birth. Ability is stretched or stunted by the family that you live with, and the neighborhood you live in--by the school you go to and the poverty or the richness of your surroundings. It is the product of a hundred unseen forces playing upon the little infant, the child, and finally the man.

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Do you agree with the above quote? Expain. The way I see it is, if she deserves it then she must have earned it working hard in school and as a judge. Her own acheivements earned her that position, not simply getting into a good school. Many get into good schools and do nothing with it. If Sonia can serve as an example of AA, then I say in her case, and in cases that mimic hers, AA proved beneficial. I'm not saying it does for all cases, but for many it has. Perhaps a reformating of the AA laws is in order and not so much an abolishment of it completely. If it proves successful then the only thing that has to be considered bad about it is where it is not beneficial.- Oni

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If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little.
~George Carlin

The point was not that she didn't earn here entrance to Princeton, the point was that she earned her position to the SC.Furthermore, she did not say her test scores were "not good," she said: "My test scores were not comparable to my colleagues at Princeton and Yale. Not so far off so that I wasn't able to succeed at those institutions."There is a difference. "Not good" implies that she did a shitty job, "not comparable" implies that she did well, well enough to succeed at those institutions, just not when compared to those who didn't have her background. Which if you agreed with the LBJ quote, then you'll agree that her upbringing is a determining factor.She adds:

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those were signs test scores alone do not offer the full measure of a person's capability. Test scores, she said, often can be the result of "cultural biases.

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So clearly, by her own admission, she feels that those test scores did not "reflect her full potential" and can be the result of "cultural biases."The question is, are those tests the only measure of a persons capabilities? And, if they can be shown to be culturally bias, wouldn't she then need some form of assistance to equal that out? I agree, but then again, many have also done the same as she's done and have not become SC Justices. So I would say that she worked hard once given the opportunity, and since she has acheived the position of Justice, it shows that those test score truly did not reflect her full capabilities. Who, those with a privilaged upbringing? Those who come from wealth and private schools? Those who's parents have connections with the school and are themselves alumni? Those who's parents donate to the school to guarantee their childs entrance? Those who's parents golf with the professors, belong to the same Country Club, live in the same neighborhoods; who probably got jobs for most of the administrations kids? ---- Honestly, tough shit. The wealthy do PLENTY to assure their kids entrance into good schools, sorry if one Puerto Rican from the Bronx got a little help. Maybe next time their parents should donate more money.I don't mean to be cynical, not really, but, there are enough advantages for people of wealth to point out a few minorities that got a little assistance. You mean the same white guys that have been in power since the birth of the US? The same ones that dominate every political office, corporation and financial institution? -- Please -- They get no sympathy from me having seen their corruption gain them wealth, power and control. There will always be racial tension and bitter resentment as long as there's a class war. Having looked at the history of the US, and their treatment of minorities, any white person that feels resentment toward any minority is a hypocrite.- Oni

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If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little.
~George Carlin

And she did. Where do you feel she didn't carry her own weight?You're making it sound like AA just placed her in the school when she was incapable of being in it. It's not like she was helped throughout her schooling, she worked her ass off. She became judge, she worked her ass off there as well. She carried her own weight IMO. And she did. AA had nothing to do with it. It doesn't. It proved beneficial because we have a SC Justice who was given an opportunity not usually granted to minorities. It proved beneficial because it shows that those test scores did not reflect her full capabilities. If they want to they can. How many want to?And if white people are looking at Miami and saying, hey, the hispanics have taken over and controlling it, they only need to drive 30 minutes to Palm Beach, (and everything north of that), to realize that they still dominate everything else. It seems petty to argue about a single city when they dominate every other one.And wouldn't this be an issue with their qualifications? "Need to be able to speak spanish" - If they can't do something the job requires then they don't qualify for the job, right? Do you REALLY think white people are going to lose their power in the US?[ABE]Maybe when hispanics take over we'll let white people build some casinos, tax free [ABE]Also, doesn't AA already cover minorities, aren't blacks currently minorities? Why would it matter if hispanics were the majority?- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.

No, you're not showing someone getting a job solely on their race. At best your example can be used to show someone getting into a school based parcially on their race, but for the most part she was more than capable of being in that school. If not, she wouldn't have graduated and went on to law school.Let me ask, did George W. Bush get his position as president based solely on his wealth and race? If he wasn't the son of daddy Bush would he have become president on his own?Do you think George W. Bush earned that position? Did he earn his place at Yale and Harvard Law?Sotamayor, got her job as SC Justice on her own merit, and she earned that position by working hard as a judge. Test scores to get into Princeton do not reflect her capabilities. Yes, and all that is an example of is getting into school, not SC Justice. She still had to EARN that position. You, at least in my opinion, are failing to show how test scores and her getting into Princeton makes her getting the position as SC Justice based solely on her race.If it was solely because of her race, then are you saying that any Puerto Rican, or minority would have worked?Or are there other requirements to getting the position as SC Justice? As opposed to what, getting a job because of who your father is or what family you come from? Actually I'll agree that many will feel this way, but I don't give a shit, it makes the playing field at least some-what even. Why should the bais only go one way? Sotomayors daddy couldn't get her into Yale like daddy Bush got his retarded son in there.So if you feel it's discriminatory, maybe try seeing it from the other side of the fence for a change. It's only racist and discriminatory in your eyes. Well, tough shit, so is US politics toward minorities.AA is like the 3 pointer. If it wasn't for the 3 pointer white people wouldn't be able to play pro basketball. If it wasn't for AA, a Puerto Rican raised by a single mother couldn't get into Princeton. If the test scores meant that she wasn't fit to attend Princeton, then she would have failed Princeton. She didn't. She also graduated summa cum laude from Princeton and went on to graduate from Yale Law School. You don't just get to do that if you're not capable. Curiously, how did George W. Bush do in school? Hatred and envy? It's funny how you jumped on Rrhain's ass for putting words in your mouth, now you're doing the same to me. I did not say hatred or envy, nor did I imply it.All I'm doing is pointing to the corruption that places the wealthy in positions of power. Did I say anything that's not true?Of course I'm being honest, I'm calling it how it is. What you seem not to like is when it's done back. Ah, well, man up my friend because shit ain't fair and we minorities are the first to recognize that. It hurts when it's done back to you though, right?But you don't seem to give a shit about Bush getting into Yale even though he's a complete idiot. You're mad at the Puerto Rican female that got a little help. Recognize the reality of the situation and stop playing up the wealthy and powerful as some kind of victim. It's complete bullshit. Add whatever you like. You say it as if I'm going to be sympathetic to your position. Recognize the impact that certiain laws and privilages have placed on minorities. Turn around is fair play. Punish the rich and powerful? How, by not cutting their grass properly? By not making their beds the right way? By not cooking their meals to satisfaction?Please explain how the mighty will fall because a few minorities got promoted and got into schools. Are you out of your mind!?All I said is that white people shouldn't feel resentment towards minorities. And I'll add, in the same way that minorities today shouldn't feel any resentment toward white people today.AA levels the playing field that is already leaning, in a HUGE way, to one side.You don't seem to mind when the rich use their influence to get their kids into top schools, or into jobs, or into government, so why give a shit when a few minorities get the same privilage?Suck it up, quit bitching, and keep an eye on your women. - OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

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If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little.
~George Carlin