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Author Topic:   Why is the Intelligent Designer so inept?
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 79 of 352 (478351)
08-14-2008 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Buzsaw
08-14-2008 11:40 AM


Re: Unappreciative Blasphemy Thread
To make them unbreakable would be to make them incapable of some of the functions they are useful for.
So God is incapable of creating fingernails that are both unbreakable and useful in all circumstances? Or how about just breakable in cuircumstances where you would want them breakable?
How about universal joint leg joints? No thanks. Too unstable.
So God is incapable of creating universal joints that are stable?
they must be designed relatively delicate as the masterful engineer must design some things delicately.
SO God is incapable of creating eyes that are robust - he is forced to make eyes delicate to perform their function?
So you wouldn't allow for the pleasure of eating and if there were the eating, you'd have no method of distributing the nutrients to the body.
So God is incapable of providing the pleasure of eating without requiring that nutrients be distributed around the body? And God is incapable of creating bodies that do not need nutrients?
Oh yah, sure. A lot of BS; not a term I generally use, but for this nonsense it fit's nicely.
What seems to be nonsense, Buz, is your idea of a god so restricted that he had to work within the confines of a human understanding of engineering...
Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Buzsaw, posted 08-14-2008 11:40 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Buzsaw, posted 08-14-2008 3:10 PM cavediver has replied
 Message 84 by rueh, posted 08-14-2008 3:19 PM cavediver has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 85 of 352 (478361)
08-14-2008 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Buzsaw
08-14-2008 3:10 PM


Re: Unappreciative Blasphemy Thread
Cavediver, the reason this thread is a looser for you is that if you were the designer, you'd design, not for the creature perse, but you'd design to suit yourself as supreme majesty of your creation for your purpose and pleasure as owner, designer and operator of the universe.
You're quite right, Buz. If I were God, I would be an evil overlord But to be honest, I couldn't begin to match the sadism evident in the god of the Old Testament as he is portrayed there
No one can deny that there's a whole lot of evidence for the argument of design in the universe
Au contraire, Buz - I deny it
From my POV, this thread is a p. poor demonstration of intelligence on your part, having so little appreciation for the wonders of all that is observed.
I never knew that wonder-appreciation was a marker for intelligence
But anyway, I have more wonder than you can possibly imagine - wonder at the physical/mathematical law that gave rise to our Galaxy, our Sun, our Earth, and me! In fact, wonder doesn't begin to scratch the surface of what I feel. And if there is a god behind that physical law, I will give him the respect due for a work of genius But the guy who poofed everything into existence 6000 years ago... well, he's an idiot. As the evidence shows
Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Buzsaw, posted 08-14-2008 3:10 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-14-2008 3:31 PM cavediver has replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 87 of 352 (478364)
08-14-2008 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by New Cat's Eye
08-14-2008 3:31 PM


Re: Unappreciative Smiley Thread
Sorry, what with Buz's comments, I was thinking that I actually was God, and as we all know, His smiley allowance is slightly higher...
Won't happen again...
Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 106 of 352 (478414)
08-15-2008 3:50 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by LucyTheApe
08-14-2008 11:30 PM


Re: Natures Folly
Once again, Lucy, all you can do is go on the offensive - the thread is not about how well *I* can design.
Is the best defense of your god that he can design better than me boy, that's some god. And you've not even demonstrated this.
And your best defense of his piss-poor design is that we should chew our food more carefully to avoid catestrophic failure of his design
Both you and Buz seem convinced that this thread is about blasphemy - not in the slightest, it is about following the evidence where it leads and calling on it. The evidence shows that any creator who made us humans as a complete creation sometime in the past 100,000 years, was either severely constrained in his options or retarded. That is what the evidence shows. That is not blasphemy.
Tell me again - we do we hurt, damage, or even kill ourselves when we fall over, or trip down the stairs?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by LucyTheApe, posted 08-14-2008 11:30 PM LucyTheApe has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 107 of 352 (478416)
08-15-2008 4:16 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Buzsaw
08-14-2008 10:36 PM


Re: Unappreciative Blasphemy Thread
The only people who would describe all of the wonders of what is observed on this planet and in in the cosmos as shoddy or the work of an idiot designer would be people who for one reason or another deny ID or anything supernatural to earthlings
Once again, Buz, you get it completely backwards. I came to this conclusion as a Christian And th only axe I had to grind was with the idiot creationists around me. Those who don't even consider the possibility of a creator would never have a reason to consider the cosmos as shoddy - because it only appears complete shit when you consider that there was a creator who brought it all into existence, designing each individual component to his sepcification. Only when you appreciate that the human design is completely dictated by the evolution of our Universe, do you realise what an incredible construct it is - but it is not a design.
The work is clearly not shoddy to rational observers who have no axe to grind
The work is clearly not shoddy to those who understand how the human body is the result of a strict progression beginning at least 14 billion years ago. And so you are correct - to rational observers, the Universe is exactly as it should be.
The creator of an army designs the army to the needs and purposes of the government, not according to the whims and desires of the individuals which make it up. Savvy?
And does this imply that the creator of the army is not an idiot, when we see the attrocious results of his decisions?
Again Buz, why do we hurt, damage, or even kill ourselves when we fall over, or trip down the stairs?
Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Buzsaw, posted 08-14-2008 10:36 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Buzsaw, posted 08-15-2008 9:03 AM cavediver has replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 109 of 352 (478427)
08-15-2008 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Buzsaw
08-15-2008 9:03 AM


Re: Unappreciative Blasphemy Thread
I see it according to the trend of the LoTs, that order, intelligence, complex design etc does not trend from disorder and randomness.
I wouldn't expect you to see it, Buz, because you have next to zero knowledge of thermodynamics. And there is no complex design - that's what we keep tellign you.
The creator, for whatever reason, being soverign majesty of creation chose to create us on this planet as flesh and blood creatures with the capacity of etermal life.
The problem, Buz, is that you are looking around you and saying - look at this amazingly designed world, doesn't that just point to a "soverign majesty of creation"?
And we're saying, no Buz, it doesn't. It points to an eons long mind-blowing evolutionary process - if a creator just willed all of this ex-nihilo, then its pathetic
The creator, for whatever reason...
And that is your only get-out clause? That God must have his reasons for why we're so crap, so fragile, but we are not privy to them? That's a fine excuse, Buz, but it sort of flies in the face of the original claim that the 'obvious desgn' was so good it implies a creator. The design doesn't look good, even if God has his reasons to make it not look good... and thus we are never to going to conclude that there is "soverign majesty of creation" by looking at the evidence.
Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Buzsaw, posted 08-15-2008 9:03 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by johnfolton, posted 08-15-2008 1:38 PM cavediver has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 120 of 352 (478467)
08-15-2008 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Blue Jay
08-15-2008 2:37 PM


Re: It Won't Work, Buzsaw
Whether or not we pursue this is ultimately up to Cavediver
Feel free - I'm off to DisneyLand Paris for three days

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Blue Jay, posted 08-15-2008 2:37 PM Blue Jay has not replied

Replies to this message:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 148 of 352 (478553)
08-17-2008 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by Buzsaw
08-17-2008 10:28 AM


Re: Provoking the designer
Coyote writes:
You talk about breathing and eating with the same tube? How about routing half of waste disposal system through the pleasure centers? Freshman in shop class would be flunked for that one.
Buzsaw writes:
You're not making good sense here. Why encumber the system with unnecessary tubes and apparatus when functions can be combined. This is argument for the wonders of design and glory to the omniscient designer.
wonders of design??? You really have to have your head up your arse to declare that the penis is a wonder of design
I give you Kryten on the penis:
quote:
It's hideous! That's the best design they could come up with? Are you seriously telling me there were choices, and someone said "Ah, there, that's it. That's the shape we're looking for: The last-chicken-in-the-shop look?" Shakespeare had one? Einstein? Perry Como sang "Memories are Made of This" with one of those stashed in his slacks?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Buzsaw, posted 08-17-2008 10:28 AM Buzsaw has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 149 of 352 (478554)
08-17-2008 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by Buzsaw
08-17-2008 10:16 AM


Re: Provoking the designer
Ignore the designer and your descendent's suffer. Don't blame the designer.
Did the designer not design us to inherit the effects of the sins of our ancestors - i.e. Adam? How can we NOT blame the designer? Or did God have to design us that way? Did he not have any choice in the matter?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Buzsaw, posted 08-17-2008 10:16 AM Buzsaw has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 175 of 352 (485784)
10-11-2008 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Kevin123
10-11-2008 5:42 PM


Infinite regress?
So, are you postulating an infinite regress of intelligent yet imperfect beings successively creating new biospheres (or entire universes)? Or have you some other idea as to how life could originally arise?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Kevin123, posted 10-11-2008 5:42 PM Kevin123 has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 300 of 352 (508839)
05-16-2009 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by OriginLifeandDeath
05-14-2009 9:52 PM


Re: General Reply
the topic originator is seduced by his own intellect that he/she has failed to realize...
Ahem, I think you simply failed in your ability to read
cavediver writes:
As an exercise in what physical laws can produce, the human life is a stroke of genius. As an exanmple[sic] of what a deity can spontaneously 'create', it's pathetic...
I must say, at the closing end of this thread, I have seen bluster, affront, and nonsense, but nothing to challenge my opening comments. The deity behind Young Earth Creationism is a buffoon, inept in just about every aspect of his creative ability. The deity behind Intelligent Design? Well, that is for another thread
Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by OriginLifeandDeath, posted 05-14-2009 9:52 PM OriginLifeandDeath has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by IchiBan, posted 05-17-2009 7:00 AM cavediver has replied
 Message 334 by OriginLifeandDeath, posted 05-21-2009 12:04 AM cavediver has replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 303 of 352 (508916)
05-17-2009 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 302 by IchiBan
05-17-2009 7:00 AM


Re: General Reply
So just what does this victory over the deity/s of Young Earth Creationism get you
Nothing, given that those deities do not exist. It is merely an exercise in demonstrating the utterly flawed nature of the concept of Biblical YECism. The Universe around us bears no resemblence to the one described in YEC theology, even allowing for just about every possible consequence of the Fall. I repeat, was the ground much softer pre-Fall? Were cliffs quite a bit lower?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by IchiBan, posted 05-17-2009 7:00 AM IchiBan has not replied

Replies to this message:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 335 of 352 (509393)
05-21-2009 5:49 AM
Reply to: Message 334 by OriginLifeandDeath
05-21-2009 12:04 AM


Re: General Reply
God did not intend to create you. So that you may sleep better, God didn't intend to create me or anyone else or even any species.
I have no argument with this belief.
Life, the start of it, looks quite intended.
I disagree, but that is OT for this thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by OriginLifeandDeath, posted 05-21-2009 12:04 AM OriginLifeandDeath has not replied

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