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Author Topic:   Seashells on tops of mountains.
Admin
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Message 151 of 343 (490240)
12-03-2008 8:01 AM


Topic Reminder
This thread, the Seashells on tops of mountains. thread, resides in the [forum=-7] forum, which is one of the science forums. Regardless of the source of any idea, whether it be the Bible, a scientist, a dream, science requires one to say, "I must check if my idea is correct by gathering and examining evidence from the real world."
In other words, science threads are all about evidence, not declarations of belief.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 152 of 343 (490280)
12-03-2008 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Peg
12-03-2008 6:53 AM


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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 153 of 343 (490286)
12-03-2008 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Peg
12-03-2008 6:58 AM


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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 154 of 343 (490329)
12-03-2008 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Peg
12-03-2008 6:58 AM


Hey Peg,
actually i recall mentioning how mountains rise and fall of mountains into the sea... the earth is always moving as we know and there are are mountains deep down in the ocean beds and some have been pushed up to above the surface
Which is where we started: how can you tell whether this is just an ad hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy or not?
The question is what kind of time frame you think this occurs over, and how consistent is that with observations. Note that the evidence contains many layers of many generations of marine organisms in a mature ecosystem.
... and hence I would always first assume that scientists may have the wrong idea... they have been known to change their opinions on things as their knowledge increases
So the scientific ideas about the age of the earth are going to change the depth and diversity of layers of marine life?
Or is it just that you don't want to play fair and consider that your personal (non-scientific, untested) ideas may also be wrong? Would you change your ideas as your knowledge increases or would you reject an increase in knowledge that contradicts your ideas?
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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 155 of 343 (490378)
12-04-2008 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by RAZD
12-03-2008 8:07 PM


Hi radz
Radz writes:
Which is where we started: how can you tell whether this is just an ad hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy or not?
The question is what kind of time frame you think this occurs over, and how consistent is that with observations. Note that the evidence contains many layers of many generations of marine organisms in a mature ecosystem.
its obviously something that happens very slowly over a long period of time... there is no way anyone could witness it.
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Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 156 of 343 (490380)
12-04-2008 5:19 AM


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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 157 of 343 (490381)
12-04-2008 5:25 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Peg
12-03-2008 6:58 AM


Consequenses of Convictions
duplicate deleted
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 158 of 343 (490385)
12-04-2008 5:33 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Peg
12-04-2008 5:13 AM


thanks Peg, had trouble with my connection last night
the scientific ideas just may change...they have changed in the past, they are always changing.
Do you know of a single instance where they have changed drastically versus refined the concepts? Age of the earth for instance keeps getting refined. It is like finding the value for π - we can't find an exact number but we can continually refine the value we have.
And yes, i would have my understanding adjusted if there was evidence to the contrary.
Good. Then you accept that the earth is 4.5 billion years old and that for at least 3.5 billion of those years life has existed?
The evidence of seashells on mountain tops is part of that evidence of age that adds up to an old earth.
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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 159 of 343 (490390)
12-04-2008 6:06 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by RAZD
12-04-2008 5:33 AM


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Razd writes:
Good. Then you accept that the earth is 4.5 billion years old and that for at least 3.5 billion of those years life has existed?
The evidence of seashells on mountain tops is part of that evidence of age that adds up to an old earth.
absolutely! we dont know the exact age of the earth, but we know that each creative period spanned a very long time.
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Percy
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Joined: 12-23-2000
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Message 160 of 343 (490402)
12-04-2008 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Peg
12-04-2008 6:06 AM


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The answer is evidence. Discussions like this should be anchored in evidence. In other words, you should be talking about facts that bear on the topic, which happens to be about seashells on mountain tops.
--Percy
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 161 of 343 (490415)
12-04-2008 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Peg
12-04-2008 6:06 AM


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I hunt for the truth

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onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 162 of 343 (490431)
12-04-2008 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Peg
12-04-2008 6:06 AM


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"All great truths begin as blasphemies"
"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 163 of 343 (490453)
12-04-2008 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Peg
12-04-2008 6:06 AM


Thanks Peg,
absolutely! we dont know the exact age of the earth, but we know that each creative period spanned a very long time.
Great.
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Enjoy.
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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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Doubletime
Junior Member (Idle past 5392 days)
Posts: 27
Joined: 05-08-2009


Message 164 of 343 (507859)
05-08-2009 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by iceage
10-01-2007 2:17 AM


I dont belive no silly flood took them there. It must have been pirates

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Doubletime
Junior Member (Idle past 5392 days)
Posts: 27
Joined: 05-08-2009


Message 165 of 343 (507861)
05-08-2009 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Admin
12-03-2008 8:01 AM


Re: Topic Reminder
Yeah thoose pesky creationist are retards. I believe that it is so much more likely that pirates place them there. ARgghh me hearty.
Now for a more seriuos notes. I can't really see why this is not classified as very strong evidence that a worldwide flood that took place in the not to distant past had happend. Of this is a strong indication for the bible but from a 100 percent objective scientist it would only do as proof for a worldwide flood. Not that worldiwide flood but some flood.
But again i doubt the scientific community would support abiogenisis or Big Bang if they were 100 percent objective. But except for mountain peaks i can remember reading about shells being found in deserts to. and in my school they even have fosils of sea creatures found in desert.

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