|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Vapour canopy and fountains of the deep | |||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
duplicate
Edited by RAZD, : removed Edited by RAZD, : ...
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
On top of the already highly elevated climate from the hothouse created by the "vapor canopy"
Greenhouse gas - Wikipedia
quote: Looks like a lot of heat (must have something to do with thermodynamics) Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
the vapor canopy has been raised again ...
Can any creationists support this concept? Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Peg,
... are both used to refer to the great water canopy that was around the earth in suspension ... Does the bible actually say this verbatim or is this just an assumption that people have made? Certainly there is water on other planets in the solar system, and in space, and I would not be surprised to find that the amount of water on the earth NOW is less than 1% of the water in the universe.
These 'waters' were said to be above the 'expanse'. In Vs 20 the expanse was the area of sky where birds were said to fly. So the water canopy was above the breathable atmosphere...in space. Again, there is water on other planets in the solar system, and in space, and I would not be surprised to find that the amount of water on the earth NOW is less than 1% of the water in the universe. Strangely, I see no evidence of water being in a "canopy" around the earth, as there are plenty of places in the rest of the universe for the divided waters to exist without needing a single drop in any canopy. To say there is water in space is one thing, to say it was formed in a canopy needs a specific reference to that effect, otherwise it is just speculation, conjecture, fiction.
So lets say the earth was once covered by this canopy as Genesis says, ... Ummm, where was that again? Where the term "canopy" was actually used?
This would have created a hothouse effect and the earth would have had gorgeous warm climate. Curiously, we are looking at global warming producing an earth with a "gorgeous warm climate" using only a little increase in cloud cover. Increasing the volume of water above that creates lethal conditions for many organisms, including humans (look at the increase in deaths during any heat wave in any country now).
Moveing along to evidence of a warm climate, when scientist examined Ellesmere Island in Canadas Arctic Nthwest they found evidence that North America and Europe were once connected by a land bridge and that the climate in the area was once swampy and temperate. Interestingly, they also found that the shape of the continents at that time was significantly different, and that there location relative to the axis of rotation was significantly different -- enough so that the conditions on Ellesmere Island (where Tiktaalik was found) are readily explained with today's climate in similar places relative to the axis of rotation today. No need for any "gorgeous warming" to explain those conditions. The real question for creationists is why would a "vapor canopy" be necessary in order to produce a flood? To get enough water into the atmosphere to make a significant contribution to any flood that could raise the level of water world wide would create temperatures on earth like those that currently exist on Venus. To make such conditions livable takes a wave of the "god-did-it" magic wand, in which case you can invoke that instead of the water canopy and save everyone some time. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi ICANT,
Short answer, "no". Long answer, "no". Is it possible with God? Yes. Was it necessary for the volume of water necessary to cover the land mass? No. There is more than enough water present today to cover the land mass. Exactly. As I've noted before in these discussions, that it is silly to argue that a flood could not have occurred. The real question is whether there is evidence that this was the case -- evidence in particular that is compatible with the duration of the WW flood story. So I take it that you join in telling (other) creationists that the water vapor concept is unnecessary and a rather silly distraction from some real questions. Like how old the earth really is, and how life developed. Curiously, those are topics for another thread. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi bluescat48
But nowhere in the article doe it say or even imply that this was ever the case. It doesn't have to say it occurred for it to be possible. The possibility that it could do so is sufficient to make the concept of a water vapor canopy unnecessary and irrelevant, and that is the crux of this thread: for creationists to show that is some kind of rational reason for making this conjectural construct, especially when it creates more problems while solving none. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Trev777, and welcome to the fray.
The pre-flood vapour canopy was created on day 2 of Creation when God divided the waters from the waters. Evolutionists will rubbish it as it plays havoc with their dating methods. This high temperature region is about 80 miles above the earth's surface. Russian astronauts discovered this in the fifties, and noted that this region would have been capable of holding superheated steam. This aqueous canopy encircled the early earth, which was a paradise for man , beast and plant. This canopy protected the earth from harmful radiation and greatly enhanced health by reducing mutation rates. The atmospheric pressure on earth was higher (hyperbaric), this would lower metabolic rates like breathing and heartbeat. The oxygen content was also higher than today, which was very beneficial to health, -(pre-flood fossil finds show air bubbles trapped in amber with an oxygen content of 30%.) The canopy would have given a uniformly temperate climate around the earth, there were no atmospheric ciculations like today, ie -no wind or rain , which is consistent with Scripture. There were no frozen Polar regions -(fossil finds have shown tropical plantlife existed once in these regions). There was no volcanic activity till after the flood when the earths crust was broken up, originally it was all one land mass. Just in finishing -God made no pronouncement about the second day, i.e. He didn't call it good, -I guess He knew what He had created would be used to destroy the earth in the Flood. And leave absolutely no evidence that any such flood occurred, while at the same time leaving behind undisturbed evidence of a continuous stream of life millions of years old. Please note that this is a thread in the SCIENCE forum, and that one of the conditions of this thread is that one provide evidence to support any assertions. In my opinion all you have here is a compilation of ad hoc concepts with no evidence to back it up.
The oxygen content was also higher than today, which was very beneficial to health, -(pre-flood fossil finds show air bubbles trapped in amber with an oxygen content of 30%. Yes, and the level of oxygen has varied quite a bit in the present as well: Oxygen and Air Pollution
quote: The proportion of free oxygen in the atmosphere is related to the proportion of all other gases in the atmosphere -- including CO2, which has been rising since the time when the amber samples were made. There was also a time in the past when there was very little free oxygen in the atmosphere, and the oxygen we have is due to life forms producing free oxygen from compounds, and they actually changed the ecology of the planet. Great Oxidation Event - Wikipedia
quote: SO how does your model explain the time when there was 0.02% atmospheric oxygen? What were the health effects then? Note: Fluid inclusion - Wikipedia
quote: Thus there is no need to invoke a vapor barrier to get up to 35% oxygen in the atmosphere. As a result, the existence of 35% oxygen in the atmosphere in the past is not evidence that there ever was a vapor canopy.
This high temperature region is about 80 miles above the earth's surface. Russian astronauts discovered this in the fifties, and noted that this region would have been capable of holding superheated steam. You do realize, don't you, that at this elevation there are very few molecules in a cubic volume of space compared to on earth, and that superheated steam would also be very expanded in volume. The problem you have then is not only to accumulate non-lethal water from such a zone, but to gather enough to make a significant dent on the earth's surface. A couple of inches of boiling water don't make much of a flood.
... which was a paradise for man , beast and plant. This canopy protected the earth from harmful radiation and greatly enhanced health by reducing mutation rates. The atmospheric pressure on earth was higher (hyperbaric), this would lower metabolic rates like breathing and heartbeat. The oxygen content was also higher than today, which was very beneficial to health, ... Curiously, we don't see people making health spas to simulate these conditions ... any idea why?
The canopy would have given a uniformly temperate climate around the earth, there were no atmospheric ciculations like today, ie -no wind ... How do you prevent this from happening? Do you realize that the expansion and contraction of the atmosphere from night to day and back to night would cause wind to blow constantly as the earth rotated? Do you realize that one of the major predictions of global warming is more frequent and more ferocious storms? Do you know what the surface wind is like on Venus? Making up stuff does not make a concept valid. Making up more stuff to support a made up comment just gets silly. Perhaps this thread will make you think about your concepts a little more. Enjoy.
... as you are new here, some posting tips: type [qs]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:
quotes are easy or type [quote]quotes are easy[/quote] and it becomes:
quote: also check out (help) links on any formating questions when in the reply window. For other formating tips see Posting Tips If you use the message reply buttons (there's one at the bottom right of each message):... your message is linked to the one you are replying to (adds clarity). You can also look at the way a post is formated with the "peek" button next to it. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I would think at 30% atmospheric oxygen everything would be burning. Then again in your fantasy world there were no lightning bolts or volcanoes. Oh why did we have to have the fall, everything was so perfect back then. see Alvarez hypothesis - Wikipediaand Fluid inclusion - Wikipedia It looks like 35% is possible. I don't think this is a point worth arguing, as there has been a clear trend from low oxygen content to high content, higher than today, before reducing to today's levels. The problem for Trev777 is to explain the low levels along with the high levels in order to have an explanation consistent with ALL the evidence. Otherwise we're just dealing with confirmation bias and evidence cherry-picking. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : . by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Rahvin,
Well, gee golly, if we completely ignore everything we know about plate tectonics and geology, then there's enough water! Wowee!! I note that this is not about the vapor canopy, nor the fountains of the deep. I note, for the record, that it is possible for the amount of water on earth to cover the planet, and that arguing about the shape of the planet at the time, with people who claim the flood transformed the shape of the earth, is essentially a pointless head-banging exercise. Additionally, I note that this god in theory involves a supernatural entity that makes the water part so Moses et al can cross the red sea, so making the water flow up and over the current surface of the earth would also be within his capabilities. The problem is not the possibility of the water covering the earth, but the (lack of) evidence that it occurred. The problem for Trev777 is that such a possibility renders the concept of the vapor canopy pointless. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024