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Member (Idle past 2961 days) Posts: 504 From: Juneau, Alaska, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: War on Christmas | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
Many times in the Scriptures we see where God sends evil and makes evil things happen. He created it and is in control of it. This is one of the many reasons we are instructed to fear God. His wrath is not something we color in Sunday school. We also see where the Scripture talks of the elect of God and the reprobate. So Yes I believe God creates some men to suffer eternally to make his wrath manifest and bring his Elect in to submission. I'll say then, that if your deity does exist, I want nothing to do with him. Such a monster is not due any form of worship, and deserves only scorn and disgust. I call into question the moral character of any person who would actually worship a being that would do such a thing.
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Separatist Puritan Junior Member (Idle past 5512 days) Posts: 24 From: Austin, TX, USA Joined: |
shalamabobbi writes:
No. Once he has them in submission what does he do with them? Send them forth to defend Christmas? Edited by Separatist Puritan, : spacing
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Yes, but if you are chosen (Elect) by Christ, you will eventually come back to him.. Like the shepherd will bring his sheep back to the flock when they stray off. But a Sheep can not just decide to become a goat by it's own free will. This is why we are not to judge people .. some might be sheep running away from the flock at the time. So if it will happen it will happen and if it won't it won't. No need to worry about it then. Either let it happen or not as the case may be.
If you ever decided to follow him, it would be because God has given you that desire , it would be irresistible like something you felt like you had to do. So if it will happen it will happen and if it won't it won't. No need to worry about it then. Either let it happen or not as the case may be.
Straggler writes:
Are those (some here) that have declared that they wish to "save me" by convincing me of God wasting their time? Is it just a case of "If you will you will. If you won't you won't". God has already decided so just get on with your life and don't worry about it. Is that what you are saying.Straggler writes: Yours is not an evangelistic religion? (Added by edit to previous post) SP writes: We are commanded to preach the gospel to every one, but we have no power at all of our selves to "save" any one. In fact that is a very dangerous train of thought. No one can make some one elect. only God can make people aware of their election. That seems a little contradictory. Those who will follow Christ will do so with or without your preaching. Those who will not follow Christ will just not follow Christ with or without your preaching. So why preach? Why not just spend the wasted time preaching drinking ale and smoking cigars instead?
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Separatist Puritan Junior Member (Idle past 5512 days) Posts: 24 From: Austin, TX, USA Joined: |
Rahvin writes: I'll say then, that if your deity does exist, I want nothing to do with him. Such a monster is not due any form of worship, and deserves only scorn and disgust. I call into question the moral character of any person who would actually worship a being that would do such a thing. You know, I wans't sure how to respond to this.. Here is a delightful article you might enjoy... http://graceandtruth.net/index.php?option=com_content&tas... Evil is not a metaphysical substance. If we leave natural evil to the side ("calamities of nature") and talk about evil acted out by human beings, evil is an act of the will directed against God's law. Since God ordains all things, then it seems to follow that God "created" evil in the sense that he ordained sin. Edited by Separatist Puritan, : added some more -Separatist Puritan- "If ever there should come a wretched day when all our pulpits be full of modern thought, and the old doctrine of substitutionary sacrifice shall be exploded, then there will remain no word of comfort for the guilty or hope for the despairing." - C. H. SPURGEON
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shalamabobbi Member (Idle past 2879 days) Posts: 397 Joined: |
Separatist Puritan writes:
I enjoyed it, but then I enjoyed Hostel I and II..
Here is a nice article you might enjoy...
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Separatist Puritan Junior Member (Idle past 5512 days) Posts: 24 From: Austin, TX, USA Joined: |
Those who will follow Christ will do so with or without your preaching. Those who will not follow Christ will just not follow Christ with or without your preaching. So why preach? Isn't that a great question.. I thought the same. The only answer I can give right now (cause I am about to eat supper)is that the holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament command us to preach the Word. It is a tool for Christ's quickening in his elect.
Why not just spend the wasted time preaching drinking ale and smoking cigars instead? LOL... indeed I do more than I should. -Separatist Puritan- "If ever there should come a wretched day when all our pulpits be full of modern thought, and the old doctrine of substitutionary sacrifice shall be exploded, then there will remain no word of comfort for the guilty or hope for the despairing." - C. H. SPURGEON
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Straggler writes: Those who will follow Christ will do so with or without your preaching. Those who will not follow Christ will just not follow Christ with or without your preaching. So why preach? Isn't that a great question.. I thought the same. The only answer I can give right now (cause I am about to eat supper)is that the holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament command us to preach the Word. It is a tool for Christ's quickening in his elect. Well I am glad that you enjoyed the question. And that you have asked it yourself. But the answer "It is a tool for Christ's quickening in his elect" is completely incomprehensible to me. What does that actually mean? Why preach? Because Jesus says so despite it being pontless? Because it is a test of faith? But your faith is not of your own choosing anyway....... I am bewildred as to the point of you preaching. Can you explain further?
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Separatist Puritan Junior Member (Idle past 5512 days) Posts: 24 From: Austin, TX, USA Joined: |
Why preach? Because Jesus says so despite it being pontless? Because it is a test of faith? But your faith is not of your own choosing anyway.......
The Spirit of God maketh the reading, but especially the preaching of the Word, an effectual means of enlightening, convincing, and humbling sinners; of driving them out of themselves, and drawing them unto Christ; of conforming them to his image, and subduing them to his will; of strengthening them against temptations and corruptions; of building them up in grace, and establishing their hearts in holiness and comfort through faith unto salvation. (Westminster Larger Catechism Q.155) I am bewildred as to the point of you preaching. Can you explain further? -Separatist Puritan- "If ever there should come a wretched day when all our pulpits be full of modern thought, and the old doctrine of substitutionary sacrifice shall be exploded, then there will remain no word of comfort for the guilty or hope for the despairing." - C. H. SPURGEON
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
The Spirit of God maketh the reading, but especially the preaching of the Word, an effectual means of enlightening, convincing, and humbling sinners; of driving them out of themselves, and drawing them unto Christ; of conforming them to his image, and subduing them to his will; of strengthening them against temptations and corruptions; of building them up in grace, and establishing their hearts in holiness and comfort through faith unto salvation. (Westminster Larger Catechism Q.155) This all seems to suggest that preaching is worthwhile because it causes people to seek and find Christ. No? But that contradicts everything you have said previously about it being immutably known who will and will not be saved regardless of free-will. No?
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Separatist Puritan Junior Member (Idle past 5512 days) Posts: 24 From: Austin, TX, USA Joined: |
But that contradicts everything you have said previously about it being immutably known who will and will not be saved regardless of free-will. I understand how this seems like a paradox. The preaching is to give understanding and encouragement to those who would hear.Rom 10:17- So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Mat 11:15, Mat 13:9, Mat 13:15, -Separatist Puritan- "If ever there should come a wretched day when all our pulpits be full of modern thought, and the old doctrine of substitutionary sacrifice shall be exploded, then there will remain no word of comfort for the guilty or hope for the despairing." - C. H. SPURGEON
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Straggler Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Straggler writes:
I understand how this seems like a paradox. The preaching is to give understanding and encouragement to those who would hear. But that contradicts everything you have said previously about it being immutably known who will and will not be saved regardless of free-will.Rom 10:17- So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Nope. Still don't get it. Do you preach simply to make those who would follow Christ anyway feel better in the here and now? Is that what you are saying?
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 764 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
I understand how this seems like a paradox. Seems like? I think "is an insoluble paradox" is closer to the truth. And I once bought into a decent-sized slice of that huge bundle of insolubles that is Christianity...
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
Evil is not a metaphysical substance. If we leave natural evil to the side ("calamities of nature") and talk about evil acted out by human beings, evil is an act of the will directed against God's law. Since God ordains all things, then it seems to follow that God "created" evil in the sense that he ordained sin. Your definition of "evil" allows your deity to commit literally any act and have it defined as "good." If a human being rapes, tortures, and murders a bunch of children, you would call this "evil." If your deity does the exact same act, you call it "good." That means I find your system of ethics to be despicable. Your "delightful little article" is a demonstration of the complete and utter moral bankruptcy of Biblical ethics. Just from the very top:
quote: Congratulations, you worship an imaginary sociopath. Your system of ethics is the same one that allows mothers with postpartum depression to drown their children, simply because they believe "god told me to." If you heard a voice in your head claiming to be your god, and that voice instructed you to kill a young child who lives next door, would you obey the voice? According to your system of ethics, if it is god, you are sinning if you disobey. What would you do?
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Separatist Puritan Junior Member (Idle past 5512 days) Posts: 24 From: Austin, TX, USA Joined: |
If you heard a voice in your head claiming to be your god, and that voice instructed you to kill a young child who lives next door, would you obey the voice? According to your system of ethics, if it is god, you are sinning if you disobey. What would you do? God doesn't talk to people as a voice in their head,.. that is extra biblical revelation. God speaks through his Word, the holy Scripture not some mystical voice in some ones head. I am sorry you do not understand this but there is nothing I can say to change your mind, I can tell that in your posts. You already have a hate toward God. That is fine, you can mock me and the God of the Bible. It doesn't bother me. -Separatist Puritan- "If ever there should come a wretched day when all our pulpits be full of modern thought, and the old doctrine of substitutionary sacrifice shall be exploded, then there will remain no word of comfort for the guilty or hope for the despairing." - C. H. SPURGEON
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Separatist Puritan Junior Member (Idle past 5512 days) Posts: 24 From: Austin, TX, USA Joined: |
Straggler;
Just to make sure we are on the same page I am talking about preaching the Word, not "witnessing" door to door, or on the street corner or protests and rallies. I am talking about preaching the Word of God as it is instructed on Lord's Day to a congregation. -Separatist Puritan- "If ever there should come a wretched day when all our pulpits be full of modern thought, and the old doctrine of substitutionary sacrifice shall be exploded, then there will remain no word of comfort for the guilty or hope for the despairing." - C. H. SPURGEON
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