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Member (Idle past 2728 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
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Author | Topic: A Designer Consistent with the Physical Evidence | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Peg writes: My simple mind at work here, but how can there be design without a designer??? Advocates of intelligent design work very hard to convey the impression that their work is scientific and not religious. When people like yourself draw associations between the designer and the God of the Bible, which is the problem with your Message 31, it directly contradicts their claims of scientific legitimacy. If this still doesn't make sense then this isn't really the place to discuss it. If you propose a new thread we can discuss it there. This thread is about how well the proposed designer comports with the available evidence. --Percy
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Admin Director Posts: 13046 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.7 |
Hi Bertot,
I think you may be getting a little too emotionally caught up in the discussion. The week off will do you good. I think if you reread your post upon your return next week it's inappropriateness, both in terms of topic and tone, will be clear to you in ways that weren't apparent while you were composing it. Because of your persistent Forum Guidelines violations, when you return, whether next week or next year, the next serious guidelines violation will result in a permanent suspension.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
My simple mind at work here, but how can there be design without a designer??? If we assume that there is a design, then it basically follows there is a designer. Whether or not that designer is intelligent is where science and ID part company. What kind of designer do you think is implied after examining the evidence? Do you just infer that there was one, and it was intelligent or does the evidence make it possible to make to more detailed (if tentative) conclusions?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Peg,
My simple mind at work here, but how can there be design without a designer??? Is a water molecule something that is designed? At first glance it is just a rather unremarkable chemical, not even a pretty molecule, compared to the intricate patterns of other molecules. However it is one with some rather unique characteristics, several of them important to life as we know it, and without water being water life would not be like what we know as life - if it existed at all.
... how can there be design without a designer??? The pattern of a snowflake is individually intricate and symmetrical in several different ways, yet this is a result of the interaction of air, temperature and water molecules, those same water molecules necessary for our form of life. Crystals often occur when water is extracted from minerals solutions, such as salt and sugar crystals, and these too have intricate patterns based on the atomic and molecular characteristics of the minerals in question. Are we looking at design or the result of natural processes that occur time and again without any "touch" to get them going. When we look through a kaleidoscope we see a pretty design, however when we look at the other end and inside, we see that it is a random jumble of irregular bits and pieces, and the cause of the pattern is the mirrors through which these bits are viewed. Does that pattern really exist or is it a product of the way the bits and pieces are viewed? Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : unremarkable by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
RAZD writes: When we look through a kaleidoscope we see a pretty design, however when we look at the other end and inside, we see that it is a random jumble of irregular bits and pieces, and the cause of the pattern is the mirrors through which these bits are viewed. Does that pattern really exist or is it a product of the way the bits and pieces are viewed? The kaleidoscope was designed and manufactured/created in such a manner to produce the desired effect of the designer. The same goes with the snowflakes. All are said to be different. So far as we know, like the fingerprint, no two match perfectly. Imo, only by intelligent design could this be possible. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Buz,
The kaleidoscope was designed and manufactured/created in such a manner to produce the desired effect of the designer. The same goes with the snowflakes. So we are living in a house of mirrors, illusions made to appear as something else? Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4220 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
All are said to be different. So far as we know, like the fingerprint, no two match perfectly. Imo, only by intelligent design could this be possible. Actually no two snowflakes being alike is evidence against an intelligent designer. Accidental characteristics on shoe treads & tire treads act similarly to fingerprints ie. no two are the same. This is do to random wear and has no design at all but the same thing as snowflakes in that no two patterns are the same. If snow flakes were designed they would be all alike. There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
quote: We're back to the question nobody ever answers! Is there anything that happens on its own or is god required for everything? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Rrhain writes: Is there anything that happens on its own or is god required for everything? God created one man from the dust. Then he created one woman from the rib of man and ?. From there he advocated how man should live. Free will pretty much determined where man would go from there. Nevertheless, divine providence worked to insure the survival and welfare of the human race and the planet at large. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
bluescat writes: If snow flakes were designed they would be all alike. Perhaps then, as man created the kaleidescope to create symmetrical designs, so God designed the process of crystallization of snowflakes to make symmetrical designs as observed. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Buzsaw responds to me:
quote:quote: And thus, Buzsaw joins the ranks of avoiding the question. It's a simple either/or question, but nowhere in there do you find a specific answer. Let's try again, shall we? Is there anything that happens on its own or is god required for everything? "Yes, there are things that happen on their own." "No, all things require god." Which is it? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Rrhain writes: Is there anything that happens on its own or is god required for everything? Once they start calling the designer God we've got all the information we need. --Percy
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Rrhain writes: "Yes, there are things that happen on their own." We are not all created by God; none of us alive today or yesterday or last year or last month, last century, last millennium etc have been created by God; not even Noah. One man, Adam, was created by God. All others have procreated from Adam without God designing or creating each. God's creative work on humans and the species ended on day six of Genesis one. Thus the sabbath rest as God rested on the seventh day. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
We are not all created by God; none of us alive today or yesterday or last year or last month, last century, last millennium etc have been created by God; not even Noah. One man, Adam, was created by God. All others have procreated from Adam without God designing or creating each. God's creative work on humans and the species ended on day six of Genesis one. Thus the sabbath rest as God rested on the seventh day. And where in the scientific literature did you find that? Or are you just preaching your particular religious belief in the Science Forum? And in the guise of science? (I thought Intelligent Design was supposed to be science! You've just given the whole sordid scheme away with your preaching.) Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Same reaction as Coyote: all your talk of God and Adam and the sabbath and resting on the seventh day just convinces people that intelligent design is not science but religion.
Advocates of intelligent design must cringe every time you post. --Percy
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