Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Who & what are the demons ?
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 106 of 349 (500575)
02-27-2009 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Straggler
02-24-2009 12:50 PM


"Lord, help my unbelief."
I just did this. But I still don't believe. What am I doing wrong?
Saul (who became the Apostle Paul) also had a problem with believing that Jesus is Lord, until he actually met the Lord on the Road to Damascus in Acts 9,
1 Now Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest,
2 and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
3 As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him;
4 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"
5 And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" And He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,
6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."
You may argue whether or not this event actually happened, but it certainly was real enough for Paul to spend the rest of life devoted to doing what the Lord continually told him to do from that experience onward.
I am forever grateful for the writers of the New Testament giving to me and to others who are able to believe what is written therein.
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Straggler, posted 02-24-2009 12:50 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Straggler, posted 02-27-2009 5:30 PM John 10:10 has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 107 of 349 (500595)
02-27-2009 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by John 10:10
02-27-2009 12:37 PM


Re: "Lord, help my unbelief."
Straggler writes:
I just did this. But I still don't believe. What am I doing wrong?
Saul (who became the Apostle Paul) also had a problem with believing that Jesus is Lord, until he actually met the Lord on the Road to Damascus in Acts 9
OK. So how do I meet the lord such that he can convince me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by John 10:10, posted 02-27-2009 12:37 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by John 10:10, posted 02-27-2009 7:12 PM Straggler has replied

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 108 of 349 (500597)
02-27-2009 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Straggler
02-27-2009 5:30 PM


Re: "Lord, help my unbelief."
OK. So how do I meet the lord such that he can convince me?
These verses in Jeremiah are the best advice I can give you.
Jer 29:13-14 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the LORD.
Then start reading the Gospel of John with an open mind. The Lord will do the rest.
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Straggler, posted 02-27-2009 5:30 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Straggler, posted 02-28-2009 5:55 AM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 110 by Modulous, posted 02-28-2009 7:25 AM John 10:10 has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 109 of 349 (500620)
02-28-2009 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by John 10:10
02-27-2009 7:12 PM


Re: "Lord, help my unbelief."
Straggler writes:
OK. So how do I meet the lord such that he can convince me?
John writes:
These verses in Jeremiah are the best advice I can give you.
Jer 29:13-14 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the LORD.
This sounds suspiciously like your usual circular argument of - "Those who believe will see the reasons to believe".
If we change this to "Those who believe will create reasons to believe" then I think we are closer to the truth of the situation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by John 10:10, posted 02-27-2009 7:12 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by John 10:10, posted 02-28-2009 3:04 PM Straggler has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 110 of 349 (500623)
02-28-2009 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by John 10:10
02-27-2009 7:12 PM


Re: "Lord, help my unbelief."
OK. So how do I meet the lord such that he can convince me?
These verses in Jeremiah are the best advice I can give you.
I fail to see how a letter written from Jeremiah to the remnant of the elders which were carried away captives, and to the priests, and to the prophets, and to all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon can be relevant to us gentiles living in this time so as to communicate with YHWH.
I read that section as being YHWH's promise that the captivity/exile will end soon, and nothing more.
quote:
For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.
Since none of this is on topic - maybe you could detail your methodology and reasons in a new thread?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by John 10:10, posted 02-27-2009 7:12 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 111 of 349 (500632)
02-28-2009 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Straggler
02-28-2009 5:55 AM


Re: "Lord, help my unbelief."
Since you don't want to believe that the Lord can and will lead you into His salvation, if you will search for Him by reading the Gospel of John with an open mind, I wish you all the best as you live in your unbelief.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Straggler, posted 02-28-2009 5:55 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Straggler, posted 02-28-2009 5:48 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 112 of 349 (500639)
02-28-2009 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by John 10:10
02-28-2009 3:04 PM


Re: "Lord, help my unbelief."
Since you don't want to believe that the Lord can and will lead you into His salvation, if you will search for Him by reading the Gospel of John with an open mind, I wish you all the best as you live in your unbelief.
Thank you very much.
In return I wish you all the best with regard to those pesky demons.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by John 10:10, posted 02-28-2009 3:04 PM John 10:10 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Coragyps, posted 02-28-2009 6:25 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 113 of 349 (500642)
02-28-2009 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Straggler
02-28-2009 5:48 PM


Re: "Lord, help my unbelief."
In return I wish you all the best with regard to those pesky demons.
And remember to try risperidone as a repellent if the Holy Name of Jesus doesn't chase the little red bastards off quickly enough.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Straggler, posted 02-28-2009 5:48 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 114 of 349 (670795)
08-19-2012 8:26 AM


You Tube Demoncasting
I had to share this video. Though a bit long, it was at worst a great acting job and at best an observation of a person who at least thinks and believes that they are possessed.
Of course, why would any respectable demon allow themselves to be captured on film, thus alerting the world to their reality?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Phat, posted 08-20-2012 9:44 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 115 of 349 (670852)
08-20-2012 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Phat
08-19-2012 8:26 AM


Re: You Tube Demoncasting
for those skeptics among you,m watch the video at about the 40 minute mark and you will see that this man is quite sane and was not acting...though I suppose a critic may suggest that he only THOUGHT he was possessed!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Phat, posted 08-19-2012 8:26 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by ringo, posted 08-20-2012 12:04 PM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 116 of 349 (670862)
08-20-2012 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Phat
08-20-2012 9:44 AM


Re: You Tube Demoncasting
Phat writes:
...though I suppose a critic may suggest that he only THOUGHT he was possessed!
I didn't watch the whole video but it seems clear that he THOUGHT he was possesed. I wouldn't doubt his sincerity any more than I'd doubt the sincerity of somebody THINKS he's going to heaven or somebody who THINKS he's Napoleon.
The question is: What does THINKING something or believing something have to do with that something being real?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Phat, posted 08-20-2012 9:44 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Phat, posted 08-21-2012 1:08 AM ringo has replied
 Message 118 by dwise1, posted 08-21-2012 4:56 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 117 of 349 (670911)
08-21-2012 1:08 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by ringo
08-20-2012 12:04 PM


Re: You Tube Demoncasting
Ringo writes:
The question is: What does THINKING something or believing something have to do with that something being real?
The question also is is it possible that something is real regardless of our beliefs or rational logic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by ringo, posted 08-20-2012 12:04 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by dwise1, posted 08-21-2012 5:08 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 120 by ringo, posted 08-21-2012 12:00 PM Phat has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 118 of 349 (670918)
08-21-2012 4:56 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by ringo
08-20-2012 12:04 PM


Re: You Tube Demoncasting
Two separate and independent fundamentalist occurances.
There are sleep states that people go into. One such sleep state is where the subject is asleep but still aware of what's going on around them. However, in this state the subject is also disconnected, such that there is a general physical paralysis so that the subject does not act out the scenario that is unfolding within his dream state ... possibly kind of like when a sleeping dog yelps and twitches his legs and we say "he's dreaming of chasing rabbits".
First, my high school friend's mother. She was napping in such a state and, in her paralysis, she was convinced that demons were clutching at her and she was powerless to cry out to her daughter for help. She was convinced that it was demons!
Second was my brother-in-law. An electrical engineer, MS if I'm not mistaken. Christian fundamentalist of many years. He went through the same thing and was convinced that demons were clutching at him.
[voice="Homer Simpson"]Yeah, wha'cha gonna do?[/voice]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by ringo, posted 08-20-2012 12:04 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 119 of 349 (670919)
08-21-2012 5:08 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by Phat
08-21-2012 1:08 AM


Re: You Tube Demoncasting
And yet, given the subjects' presuppostional interpretations of what they had sensed, how could we be objective about their interpretations?
Did something happen? OK, maybe.
What happened? ... at this point, all hell breaks loose. The observers have made certain observations within the context of certain expectations. But were those observations indeed within that context? If not, then the interpretations need to change in order to take into account the new truth.
Is the reality what was previously thought? Or something different?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Phat, posted 08-21-2012 1:08 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 120 of 349 (670971)
08-21-2012 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Phat
08-21-2012 1:08 AM


Re: You Tube Demoncasting
Phat writes:
The question also is is it possible that something is real regardless of our beliefs or rational logic.
If there was something real outside our rational logic, how would we know?
Even those who believe in demons are looking at real manifestations, usually "odd behaviour". The only difference between a scientific approach and theirs is that they let their beliefs colour their conclusions.
If there is an explanation based on what we do know about how the brain operates (see dwise1), why consider a woo-woo explanation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Phat, posted 08-21-2012 1:08 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Phat, posted 08-21-2012 5:31 PM ringo has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024