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Author Topic:   Expectations For The New Obama Democrat Government
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 331 of 341 (500495)
02-26-2009 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 327 by Percy
02-26-2009 3:03 PM


Re: OH NO
Percy writes:
Religious intolerance makes strange bedfellows. There's a branch of atheism that demonizes almost all religions on the grounds that they are dangerous, and Buz probably shares their opinion about all religions but his.
You have it right, Percy. New Testament Christianity is the only religion I know of that is not dangerous. The teachings of Jesus and his apostles bear that out.
That citizens of Protestant Christian US have been the least oppressed by their own governments bears that out as well.
Edited by Buzsaw, : forgot to check spelling

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by Percy, posted 02-26-2009 3:03 PM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by Fosdick, posted 02-26-2009 8:04 PM Buzsaw has replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 332 of 341 (500503)
02-26-2009 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by Buzsaw
02-26-2009 6:24 PM


Buz's lies
The Muslim School Lie
from Who Is Barack Obama? | Snopes.com
The school Barack Obama attended in Indonesia was "Muslim" primarily in the sense that the preponderance of its student body was Muslim (because Indonesia is a predominantly Muslim country)
From The Audacity of Hope
I was sent first to a neighborhood Catholic school and then to a predominantly Muslim school
from snopes again
, who proudly pointed to a photo of a young Barry Obama, as he was known, said his school is not one of them.
and also
Moreover, a statement released by the Obama campaign affirmed that:
In the past week, many of you have read a now thoroughly-debunked story by Insight Magazine, owned by the Washington Times, which cites unnamed sources close to a political campaign that claim Senator Obama was enrolled for "at least four years" in an Indonesian "Madrassa". The article says the "sources" believe the Madrassa was "espousing Wahhabism," a form of radical Islam.
All of the claims about Senator Obama’s faith and education raised in the Insight Magazine story and repeated on Fox News are false. Senator Obama was raised in a secular household in Indonesia by his stepfather and mother. Obama’s stepfather worked for a U.S. oil company, and sent his stepson to two years of Catholic school, as well as two years of public school.
To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago. Furthermore, the Indonesian school Obama attended in Jakarta is a public school that is not and never has been a Madrassa.
So your claim that he went to a "muslim" school is undoubtly proven to be a lie.
The Muslim Kenyan Dictor who is Obama's Cousin Lie
once more with snopes: Barack Obama and Kenya Connection | Snopes.com
Raila Odinga (who was jailed for a total of eight years beginning in 1982 for protesting the one-party rule of Kenya's then-dictator, Daniel Arap Moi) has claimed to be a cousin of Illinois senator Barack Obama (maintaining that Obama's biological father was his maternal uncle). However, no evidence has been offered to document that claim, and the fact that Odinga made such a claim only in the immediate aftermath of the disputed December 2007 elections in Kenya (even though Barack Obama had been a prominent political figure long before then) suggests it was a opportunistic fiction invented by Odinga to provide himself with a badly-needed cloak of political legitimacy. (A few months earlier, another Kenyan political candidate, Nicholas Owino Rajula, had also claimed to be a distant cousin of Senator Obama.)
Barack Obama's uncle has denied Odinga's claim that the two men are directly related,
saying: "Odinga's mother came from this area, so it is normal for us to talk about
cousins. But he is not a blood relative." Even if Raila Odinga and Barack Obama were in fact distant relatives, their connection would merely be a genetic one the two men have no history of any substantive form of familial relationship.
On the "Muslim" dictator front:
This was addressed already by cavediver in Message 62
Proof please. You will not find it, becasue Odinga is Christian. How do I know? My number one employee is Luo and his family (very Christian) knows the Odingas
And you responded in Message 67
I stand corrected.
So once again your lies are exposed.

soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by Buzsaw, posted 02-26-2009 6:24 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 334 by Buzsaw, posted 02-26-2009 8:27 PM DrJones* has replied

Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 333 of 341 (500507)
02-26-2009 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by Buzsaw
02-26-2009 7:09 PM


Re: OH NO
Buz writes:
You have it right, Percy. New Testament Christianity is the only religion I know of that is not dangerous. The teachings of Jesus and his apostles bear that out.
That citizens of Protestant Christian US have been the least oppressed by their own governments bears that out as well.
Buz,
Here’s an argument for why New Testament Christianity is dangerous, because its modern form arrived as Calvinism. Calvinism, according to Max Weber, is at the heart of acquisitive capitalism, the greedy and corruptive kind we have today. If you get rich that means you are one of the electi, chosen by God to succeed, according to Calvinism. And look at where that electi principle has taken us today: to the dire straits of economic chaos. So, I go along with Weber and blame New Testament Christianity for turning healthy capitalism into acquisitive capitalismthe kind that will do us in. As such, it's dangerous.

I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Buzsaw, posted 02-26-2009 7:09 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by Buzsaw, posted 02-26-2009 8:37 PM Fosdick has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 334 of 341 (500510)
02-26-2009 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by DrJones*
02-26-2009 7:51 PM


Re: Buz's lies
OK, Jonesy. Let's begin with Message 67.
My response was this:
Buzsaw wrote:
I stand corrected. Obama and his buddy Odinga both claim to be Christians but Odinga sides with the 10% minority Muslum militant faction in Kenya who want to impose Sharia Islamic law in the nation.
I did not lie. I had forgotten the particulars. However, what is interesting here is that both of these men have a history of having connections to Islam but claim to be Christian. Is there a correlation here? Are both stealth Muslims who work to undermine the Christian constituency and to non-candescently aid and abet the advancement of Islam?
Obama, allegedly Christian = Kenyan Muslim father and active in church which promotes Nation of Islam in Christian majority America and undermines the war on terror by releasing dangerous Jehadists and closing Gitmo etc.
Kenyan Odinga, allegedly Christian = Aids and abets horrific violence against Christian majority Kenya.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by DrJones*, posted 02-26-2009 7:51 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by DrJones*, posted 02-26-2009 8:37 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 337 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-26-2009 8:42 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 335 of 341 (500511)
02-26-2009 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by Fosdick
02-26-2009 8:04 PM


Re: OH NO
Fosdick writes:
Here’s an argument for why New Testament Christianity is dangerous, because its modern form arrived as Calvinism. Calvinism, according to Max Weber, is at the heart of acquisitive capitalism, the greedy and corruptive kind we have today. If you get rich that means you are one of the electi, chosen by God to succeed, according to Calvinism. And look at where that electi principle has taken us today: to the dire straits of economic chaos. So, I go along with Weber and blame New Testament Christianity for turning healthy capitalism into acquisitive capitalismthe kind that will do us in. As such, it's dangerous.
Fosdick, this is a strawman. It is not Biblical NT Christianity. Jesus or his apostles never promised worldly riches to anyone for being a Christian. It was the opposite. He said his followers would be hated of the world and would suffer persecution for their faith.
Edited by Buzsaw, : fix quotes

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by Fosdick, posted 02-26-2009 8:04 PM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by Fosdick, posted 02-27-2009 11:16 AM Buzsaw has not replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 336 of 341 (500512)
02-26-2009 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by Buzsaw
02-26-2009 8:27 PM


Re: Buz's lies
Obama, allegedly Christian = Kenyan Muslim father and active in church which promotes Nation of Islam in Christian majority America
What does his father's country of origin have to do with anything Buz? As well his father was no longer a practicing muslim by the time he married his mother and left them when Barack was 2. How much of a religion that he didn't practice do you think he managed to impart on a 2 year old? How did the church "promote" the Nation of Islam Buz? And what does the christian majority of america have to do with it?
I had forgotten the particulars.
yeah sure you did.
Kenyan Odinga, allegedly Christian
But you have no proof he isn't do you Buz? You have no evidence that he's a muslim ergo continuing to call him a muslim would be lieing.
Are both stealth Muslims who work to undermine the Christian constituency and to non-candescently aid and abet the advancement of Islam?
Following that logic it's safe to say that like your fellow racist christians the KKK, you want to lnych black men and firebomb their curches.
Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.
Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.

soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by Buzsaw, posted 02-26-2009 8:27 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 337 of 341 (500513)
02-26-2009 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by Buzsaw
02-26-2009 8:27 PM


Re: Buz's lies
I did not lie. I had forgotten the particulars. However, what is interesting here is that both of these men have a history of having connections to Islam but claim to be Christian. Is there a correlation here? Are both stealth Muslims who work to undermine the Christian constituency and to non-candescently aid and abet the advancement of Islam?
No.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by Buzsaw, posted 02-26-2009 8:27 PM Buzsaw has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 338 of 341 (500535)
02-27-2009 5:32 AM
Reply to: Message 324 by dronestar
02-26-2009 1:34 PM


Re: Continuing Bush Policies? military bases
Just a quick one: reasons for the existence of USA bases in Germany and Japan are similiar to reasons USA bases are in Iraq? Really? Did USA use lies to invade Germany and Japan? Look up the word "aggressor" sometime.

It's not my fault you're unfamiliar with US involvement in WWII. Let's see, deception to get us into the war? Check. Bullying civilians of enemy nations? Check. Bribing allies? Check.
The majority of the US did not want to fight WWII before we were attacked by Pearl Harbor. Even then, it was to fight the japanese, not the germans. FDR maneuvered since 1937 (especially during and after 1939), deceiving the public along the way to get us to fight Germany. As to being aggressors in the war, just who was it who shut down japanese access to oil and steel, practically ensuring an attack against us? Just who was it who dropped potentially unnecessary nuclear bombs? Whose actions led to Germany declaring war on us? Those questions are rhetorical, because the answer is the US. Go read up on WWII.
Bullying. Firebombing Dresden, Tokyo, and countless other cities. Dropping nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki when the japanese may have been ready to surrender anyhow. Killing hundreds of thousands of relatively innocent civilians. How many american civilians, exactly, did Germany and Japan kill? Don't forget the unconditional surrender, which is nothing more than saying: do this or we'll continue to beat the crap out of you. After WWII, we have our favored dictator in South Korea silencing any political dissent.
In other words, the situations are analogous to Iraq as to how we have bases there.
The reason the bases are there are also very well similar. 1)project american power in the region 2) as a staging ground for military actions, enabling faster action and reaction (although the US-Iraq SOFA prohibits using american bases as launching grounds for offensive action against other nations) 3)especially early on, to control the country and establish rules favorable to us.
No, the bases in Germany, Japan, and South Korea are very much so analogous to Iraq. If you keep on ignoring or distorting the historical record (with this, or say, Obama's vote against the PAA 2007, or any other historical inaccuracy you have), I don't think I'll be able to keep on debating, because it's simply not worth my time to correct your ignorance (willful or otherwise) for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by dronestar, posted 02-26-2009 1:34 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by dronestar, posted 02-27-2009 10:00 AM kuresu has not replied

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 339 of 341 (500561)
02-27-2009 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 338 by kuresu
02-27-2009 5:32 AM


Re: Continuing Bush Policies? military bases
Hey Kuresu,
1. The topic of THIS particular post is "aggressor". Except for your one RELATIVE line:
"As to being aggressors in the war, just who was it who shut down japanese access to oil and steel, practically ensuring an attack against us?"
your on-going blather afterwords was just, blather. Please stay focused Pops. No wonder you wrote " I don't think I'll be able to keep on debating..." who has infinite energy to waste?
2. Regarding your only relevant response:
"As to being aggressors in the war, just who was it who shut down japanese access to oil and steel, practically ensuring an attack against us?".
Please allow me to paraphrase your argument:
a. Mother to Social Service Worker: "I just HAD TO beat my daughter, she didn't clean her room. Her disobedience ensured her vicious punishment."
b. Apple to Microsoft: "We just HAD TO murder all of their employees and blow up their headquarters, they were competing in our market. The lost revenues ensured our first attack"".
c. Rapist to rape victim: " I just HAD TO rape you, look what you are wearing. The saucy dress ensured my attack on you"
d. Rap gangster: "I just HAD TO murder their entire gang. Their verbal dissing ensured their demise"
3. WITH the above examples in mind, who were the original aggressors? USA entered WWII on december 7 1941. The US mass murders you quoted were AFTER the declarations of war. By my "ignorance", that's a FEW years AFTER Japan and Germany invaded their respective countries.
4. I hope you continue our debate. SOMETIMES, you make me rethink or at least re-phrase my position. Also, Stile's thread, "Topic: Why do I think kuresu is right?" seems to be getting a thrill out of us".
"We just may not have time to spend resources on detailing a rigorous disection of an arguement. "
Thanks for repeating that Stiles.
More to come Kuresu, if, you're game . . .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by kuresu, posted 02-27-2009 5:32 AM kuresu has not replied

Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 340 of 341 (500568)
02-27-2009 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 335 by Buzsaw
02-26-2009 8:37 PM


Re: OH NO
Buz writes:
Fosdick, this is a strawman. It is not Biblical NT Christianity. Jesus or his apostles never promised worldly riches to anyone for being a Christian. It was the opposite. He said his followers would be hated of the world and would suffer persecution for their faith.
Well, that's my point: the of intent of NT Christianity was corrupted by Calvinism. Jesus would never have approved of it; NT Christianity was supposed to follow his teachings and not encourage the sanctioning of acquisitive capitalism. The electi principle of Calvinism overthrew the principe of a camel passing through the eye of a needle. Didn't it? Where does the NT say that the rich will inherit the earth?
This is why I think Obama needs to keep his distance from modern Christianity, while retaining the true message of Jesus, which is not at all favorable to the money changers.

I can see Lower Slobovia from my house.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Buzsaw, posted 02-26-2009 8:37 PM Buzsaw has not replied

AdminModulous
Administrator
Posts: 897
Joined: 03-02-2006


Message 341 of 341 (500569)
02-27-2009 11:20 AM


Terminal Drift
The topic has successfully drifted way off course. I think this is a great time to put it out of its misery. Feel free to propose some new topics on the themes herein.

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