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Author Topic:   Extinct animal resurrected by cloning!
onifre
Member (Idle past 2980 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 10 of 19 (497681)
02-05-2009 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Blue Jay
02-04-2009 11:14 AM


Hi Bluejay,
If we can't save an animal species from extinction, do you think it would still be worthwhile to clone it for a captive population?
It seems like a very ego-centric view point to have if one would be in anyway satisfied with looking at a captive animal while not taking an interest in stopping the the mechanisms that is reducing their natural habitate to begin with.
The money spent on research for cloning extinct animals can be put to better use in preserving their natural habitates.
It's the same approach that should be taken with cancer. Not that research for cancer isn't needed, but a portion of that money, IMHO, should be used to prevent the sale of products that have been known to increase the risk of cancer, or in making organic products more affordable and better advertised. (Off topic)
Would there be value in preserving or "resurrecting" a species that cannot be returned to its natural condition?
Only a financial value, like with Disneys Animal Kingdom. The Disney family would stand to gain an enormous amount of money if they can build a park exibiting extinct animals. Then the occational tourist can visit the park, see the extinct animal alive and walk away never take any interest in it again. What value can that have in a moral or ethical sense? If we don't care about the animal or its environment when it's alive, why try to pretend we care about them when they're extinct?
I don't blame scientist for wanting to clone an extinct animal since achieving that would be an amazing thing, but, other than it being a scientific achievement, I see no other value that isn't driven by financial greed. Im reminded of the atomic bomb in that sense.
- Oni

"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Blue Jay, posted 02-04-2009 11:14 AM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-05-2009 2:54 PM onifre has not replied
 Message 13 by Blue Jay, posted 02-05-2009 3:34 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2980 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 18 of 19 (497723)
02-05-2009 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Blue Jay
02-05-2009 3:34 PM


Hi Bluejay,
But, trade-offs aside, if an animal is clearly doomed (or if we have already killed it off), and there is no way to feasibly return it to the wild, is it morally warranted for us to preserve a few specimens?
For the purpose of education I can see it as possibly being a good, interesting thing, but, to clone it and then exibit it, I would say no. There are plenty of living animals to care for.
Ignoring the fact that we destroyed their habitate, which caused their disappearance, the species is now gone, time to focus on the living. Of course i'm only speaking about species that we've caused to go extinct. If a species naturally went extinct - viewing it from a nonscientific achievement perspective - we should bid farewell to them and study them as we currently do.
what about nature's benefit? Would preserving an otherwise-doomed animal in captivity (perhaps through cloning) be a way to sort of "make it up" to Mother Nature?
I personally think the best way to achieve that is to just not fuck with it. RAZD has said he is a "leave no trace" camper, I am too, the reason being that we fuck with nature when we don't. We are now beyond the ability to leave no trace, unless we just stay out of it in an industrial capacity. This of course will not happen, so forget about "making it up" to mother nature at this point.
It seems that, whatever we do, it will have a major impact on the natural world and its future, which kind of makes it hard to decide what the "right" thing to do is.
I would not say "whatever" we do will make it hard to decide what the right thing to do is. Clearly, not destroying these animals environment for the purpose of industrialization is the right thing to do. Deciding whether or not to bring an animal back who we've already caused to die off could only be considered a right or wrong choice when one has ignored the horrific act of having killed them off to begin with. If you have ignored that fact already then we should just do as we please - bring them back to life if you want, or not, it doesn't matter - because it will lend absolutly no moral weight on the issue. Morality left long time ago.
Killing some animals off causes ecological imbalances. Preserving all species may impact ecological succession and alter evolutionary patterns.
I don't think we should try to preserve the species, just not fuck with it's environment. The species will take care of itself; to quote Rocky 4: If he dies, he dies. But we don't have to expedite that by reducing the species environment which it uses for the benefit of its own survival.
I personally feel that preserving as much wilderness and as many species as we can, even if only by keeping small captive populations, is morally the safest stance we can take, given our options. But, on a purely practical basis, I'm not sure there is a solid justification for this, because it may effect the future just as much as killing things off, and, as Annafan said, there's a slippery slope there that would have to be guarded carefully.
I honestly have no moral issue at this point with either keeping them captive of not, like I said, once we stopped concerning ourselves with the species original existance it doesn't make much moral difference what we do after that point, IMHO.
- Oni

"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Blue Jay, posted 02-05-2009 3:34 PM Blue Jay has not replied

  
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