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Author Topic:   I Am Not An Atheist!
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 46 of 382 (497205)
02-02-2009 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Agobot
02-02-2009 1:30 PM


Agobot writes:
I think you'll have an answer to this question when you can explain why the nonsense spurred by atheists gets a different treatment to nonsense brought forth by creatinists. Why is a certain kind of nonsense somehow more acceptable than another?
Would you mind pointing out what "nonsense" atheists have spewed then? Or, perhaps, by "nonsense" you mean anything you don't agree with?

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Agobot, posted 02-02-2009 1:30 PM Agobot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Agobot, posted 02-02-2009 4:34 PM Huntard has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 47 of 382 (497206)
02-02-2009 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Agobot
02-02-2009 1:30 PM


Abogot writes:
I think you'll have an answer to this question when you can explain why the nonsense spurred by atheists gets a different treatment to nonsense brought forth by creatinists. Why is a certain kind of nonsense somehow more acceptable than another?
So what you're saying is that the atheist label is not given for accepting evolution, but for putting forth nonsense. What has being illogical or irrational or just plain nonsensical to do with atheism? The label still seems wholly inappropriate.
Perhaps the real question should be, "Why do some Christians feel the need to assign derogatory and inapplicable labels to people they don't agree with?" It isn't just the "atheist" label, there's plenty of others, like the ever-popular, "He's not a true Christian."
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Agobot, posted 02-02-2009 1:30 PM Agobot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Huntard, posted 02-02-2009 1:49 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 49 by bluegenes, posted 02-02-2009 2:49 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 50 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2009 3:09 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 54 by Agobot, posted 02-02-2009 4:39 PM Percy has replied
 Message 305 by marc9000, posted 08-09-2012 7:54 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 48 of 382 (497208)
02-02-2009 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Percy
02-02-2009 1:44 PM


Percy writes:
Perhaps the real question should be, "Why do some Christians feel the need to assign derogatory and inapplicable labels to people they don't agree with?" It isn't just the "atheist" label, there's plenty of others, like the ever-popular, "He's not a true Christian."
Emphasis mine.
Strangely, when considering that being a "True Christian" is being a close minded individual (since the ones calling you "not a True Christian" overy often are), I don't see how being called "not a True Christian" can be seen as a bad thing. Now, being called "not a Christian" when you are one, I can see that being painful for someone, but since no one can agree on what a "True Christian" is anyway, I don't think that term could be seen as very derogative.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Percy, posted 02-02-2009 1:44 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2478 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 49 of 382 (497212)
02-02-2009 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Percy
02-02-2009 1:44 PM


Derogatory!!
Percy writes:
Perhaps the real question should be, "Why do some Christians feel the need to assign derogatory and inapplicable labels to people they don't agree with?"
While the description "atheists" is certainly inapplicable when applied to theists, it can never be derogatory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Percy, posted 02-02-2009 1:44 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 50 of 382 (497213)
02-02-2009 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Percy
02-02-2009 1:44 PM


Hi Percy,
Percy writes:
"Why do some Christians feel the need to assign derogatory and inapplicable labels to people they don't agree with
I would rephrase the statement like this:
"Why do some people feel the need to put down other people." It does not make any difference if they agree with them or not.
Larni would probably be the best one to answer this question.
But I will try to approach it from a Biblical viewpoint.
In the garden man chose to be his own God knowing what was good and evil.
From that time until this man does not want anyone telling him what to do he is his own God so he makes his own decisions.
Therefore he must be better than anyone else.
To make sure of this position he has developed humiliation.
Ridicule is man's most potent weapon.
Therefore putting someone else down raises his own self worth in his mind.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Percy, posted 02-02-2009 1:44 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Straggler, posted 02-02-2009 3:58 PM ICANT has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 51 of 382 (497217)
02-02-2009 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by ICANT
02-02-2009 3:09 PM


Do you consider someone who accepts current scientific conclusions regarding evolution, BB etc. and who also believes in, and worships, God to be a "true Christian"?
Are you a "truer" Christian than they?
If so how?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2009 3:09 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2009 4:22 PM Straggler has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 52 of 382 (497219)
02-02-2009 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Straggler
02-02-2009 3:58 PM


Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes:
Are you a "truer" Christian than they?
I don't claim to be a Christian.
The disciples where first called Christians at Antioch because they were living a life like Christ.
I am far from that.
I am just satisfied to be a born again child of the King.
I am just a sinner saved by grace. If anybody else is saved they are a sinner saved by grace.
Neither of us deserve it.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Straggler, posted 02-02-2009 3:58 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Buzsaw, posted 02-02-2009 11:47 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 60 by Straggler, posted 02-03-2009 8:59 AM ICANT has replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5530 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 53 of 382 (497220)
02-02-2009 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Huntard
02-02-2009 1:43 PM


Huntard writes:
Would you mind pointing out what "nonsense" atheists have spewed then? Or, perhaps, by "nonsense" you mean anything you don't agree with?
Yes i could but i'd have to open up a new thread, as this is very offtopic here. If i open up a new thread, i'd be suspended for attacking the multitude of assumptions being made in most every thread. This has been changing lately and people are starting to get more tolerant towards the idea of some type of creator, I think this is rather obvious to everyone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Huntard, posted 02-02-2009 1:43 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Huntard, posted 02-02-2009 4:46 PM Agobot has replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5530 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 54 of 382 (497222)
02-02-2009 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Percy
02-02-2009 1:44 PM


Percy writes:
So what you're saying is that the atheist label is not given for accepting evolution, but for putting forth nonsense. What has being illogical or irrational or just plain nonsensical to do with atheism? The label still seems wholly inappropriate.
No, not all atheists put forth nonsense, at least not that often and not all the time. It's the tolereance that they get when they do, that gives the impression that you are an atheist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Percy, posted 02-02-2009 1:44 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Percy, posted 02-02-2009 5:27 PM Agobot has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 55 of 382 (497224)
02-02-2009 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Agobot
02-02-2009 4:34 PM


Agobot writes:
Yes i could but i'd have to open up a new thread, as this is very offtopic here. If i open up a new thread, i'd be suspended for attacking the multitude of assumptions being made in most every thread. This has been changing lately and people are starting to get more tolerant towards the idea of some type of creator, I think this is rather obvious to everyone.
If you'd like, I'll start a new thread on this, and then we can discuss it there. If your claim holds true, I don't think you'll have anything to fear. In fact I don't think you'll have anything to fear at all. Certainly not from me, if you convince me, I'll fight by your side, if you don't the worst that you'll get from me is me saying you make baseless assertions.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Agobot, posted 02-02-2009 4:34 PM Agobot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Agobot, posted 02-02-2009 5:04 PM Huntard has not replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5530 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 56 of 382 (497226)
02-02-2009 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Huntard
02-02-2009 4:46 PM


Huntard writes:
If you'd like, I'll start a new thread on this, and then we can discuss it there. If your claim holds true, I don't think you'll have anything to fear. In fact I don't think you'll have anything to fear at all. Certainly not from me, if you convince me, I'll fight by your side, if you don't the worst that you'll get from me is me saying you make baseless assertions.
Great, go ahead it was your idea, not mine. If i don't get suspended it would mean that i failed in my endeavour.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Huntard, posted 02-02-2009 4:46 PM Huntard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Percy, posted 02-02-2009 5:32 PM Agobot has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 57 of 382 (497230)
02-02-2009 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Agobot
02-02-2009 4:39 PM


Agobot writes:
No, not all atheists put forth nonsense, at least not that often and not all the time. It's the tolereance that they get when they do, that gives the impression that you are an atheist.
I question the logic, but this isn't really what I'm talking about. Anyone can make an honest mistake about someone else's position. I'm talking about when they know someone isn't an atheist and accuse him of it anyway because within their community it is perhaps the most horrific accusation one can make. Honesty, integrity and accuracy all go out the window in an attempt to change discussion from a debate about evidence into a contest of who can do the best job demonizing the other side.
I gave my best example of this in my opening post: Why did some very devout churchgoers in Dover accuse other very devout churchgoers of being atheists, not once by mistake about people they didn't know, but over and over and over again about people they knew very well?
My own answer is that when the facts are on your side then you push the facts, and when the facts are against you then you find excuses for doing very effective but unchristian things.
The atheist label has little effectiveness for scaremongering here at EvC, but creationists often find it useful to deflect attention from the real issues.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Agobot, posted 02-02-2009 4:39 PM Agobot has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 58 of 382 (497233)
02-02-2009 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Agobot
02-02-2009 5:04 PM


Agobot writes:
If i don't get suspended it would mean that i failed in my endeavour.
Suspensions are only handed out for persistent violations of the Forum Guidelines. Give them a read and you'll see they are strictly about behavior and process, not content. If you get suspended it will only be for persistent guidelines violations.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Agobot, posted 02-02-2009 5:04 PM Agobot has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 382 (497246)
02-02-2009 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by ICANT
02-02-2009 4:22 PM


Brief Asside For ICANT
ICANT writes:
I don't claim to be a Christian.
The disciples where first called Christians at Antioch because they were living a life like Christ.
In the churches, including yours and the one at Antioch, there are all levels of maturity with Christians. Works do not make one a Christian. One becomes a Christian by receiving Jesus, the christ of Christianity. Hopefully the Christian progresses from there growing into a life of good works? FYI, you are apparently a Christian having arrived at some level of good works in your Christian life.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2009 4:22 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 60 of 382 (497275)
02-03-2009 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by ICANT
02-02-2009 4:22 PM


Do you consider someone who accepts current scientific conclusions regarding evolution, BB etc. and who also believes in, and worships, God to have been "saved"?
In your opinion is it possible to accept these scientific conclusions and to accept God to the point of being saved? Or not.
If not why not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2009 4:22 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 02-03-2009 9:32 AM Straggler has not replied
 Message 62 by ICANT, posted 02-03-2009 11:42 AM Straggler has replied

  
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