cavediver writes:
If the universe does not split, how is the information sent from the decohered system to the wavefunctions that are in a superpositional state?
cavediver writes:
This simply makes no sense.
Yep, that didn't make sense. If we are not using MWI, and a particle is in superposition of several possible eigenstates of some observable quantity, the particle's entanglement with the environment "forces" all other eigenstates to vanish(you said they are replced by the field). I asked how is the information sent to the other eigenstates as one of the eigenstates begins to entangle with the environment(i.e. decoheres from all the other branches/possibilities).
Agobot writes:
If i understand you correctly you are saying that the electron cloud in the H atom decoheres to a single electron and all but one of all the real electron waves that used to constitute the electron cloud are annihilated by positrons? Are you saying that this happens by way of pair production of virtual positrons, and do the number of positrons produced by pair production always equal the number of electron waves to be annihilated?
cavediver writes:
No, nothing close to what I said, and I have no clue as to what you are saying.
I was asking what happens to the other eigenstates. I also wonder how the charge of an electron can be spread out anywhere in space at the same time(if we know the wavelegth) and still be equal to the charge of a "collapsed" electron(assuming the wavefunctions of the electron are indeed real). If it's not equal, what happens to the 1st LOT when we have an infinite number of waves, each carrying exactly 1 electron charge?
Agobot writes:
Does this mean that light(photons) aren't the cause of "collapse" of the electron wavepackets before the screen of the double slit experiment?
cavediver writes:
What collapse? If both slits are open and without detectors, there is interference. The only collapse occurs at the screen itself. What have photons to do with it?
I meant with detectors. Sorry, that's a typo.
Agobot writes:
How does it happen that at the double slit, placing a deterctor at the slit that uses photons to detect passing electrons, always results in the disappearance of the interference pattern?
cavediver writes:
Because your detection equipemnt is forcing collapse. I really don't understand your confusion here???
ok, very simply put - is light what causes the collapse of electron waves at the double slit experiment when detectors are used? If yes, why isn't normal magnitude sun-light causing water atoms' bonds to sheer(assuming decoherence to be true)?
Agobot writes:
If all the particles of the Black sea have decohered to a single state(so that i could observe them).
cavediver writes:
Are molecules at your scale? Have you ever seen a molecule? Molecules are still well within the quantum regime.
And isn't the molecule of water the reason why i see water instead of Dimethyl tryptamine when i gaze at the sea? This is the first time when i see you provide a non-scientific description and will disagree with you. What you are saying implies that if the bonds between atoms in the molecule of water broke apart, we'd still observe a sea. Or if I change the DNA molecule in my chromosomes with the molecule of water - H20, i'd be ok because I don't live at the quantum level. If Decohrence is the preferred interpretaion we shouldn't be observing liquid water, and this doesn't correspond to my day to day observations. I think this point is obvious even to non-physicists reading our conversation.
Agobot writes:
Say we know the momentum of a moving electron that's near a wall so it's a collection of possibilities of real waves
cavediver writes:
Waves? Why is there more than one wave?
HUP. If we know the wavelength of a particle, it has no definite position in phase space and is represented by its real wave states whcih can be practically anywhere, right?
Agobot writes:
...is forced into a single state electron. Information had to be exchanged across the wall in a FTL fashion, otherwise we'd have multiple electrons, right?
cavediver writes:
Wrong... the interaction takes time, the localisation of the particle takes time.
Mmmm, I don't think this answers my question or maybe i don't understand it and that's why i am puzzled. Electrons move at speeds close to c, why do we have to localise the electron? By "interaction takes time" do you mean that a photon wave that bumps into an electron wave at speeds close to c, takes time?
cavediver writes:
There is nothing FTL about this
Then, put in layman's terms, how would the other eigenstates "know" when to be, as you say, "replaced by the field", provided that most of the time electrons move at speeds close to c? If we know the wavelength of a wave of an electron, the electron is everywhere in space and the "collapse" is instantaneous at interaction. The instantaneous disappearance of the other eigenstates violates locality(if they didn't disappear instantaneously, some of the eigenstates could interact and form other electrons which violates the 1st LOT, right?). And if the assumption of locality is wrong, how can we keep the notion of real wavefunctions?
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
™ Version 4.2