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Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Scientific vs Creationist Frauds and Hoaxes | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
In Message 369 percy says
Tell you what, why don't you propose a thread to enumerate frauds, misrepresentations and significant mistakes for evolution versus those for creation, and we'll keep a count of each. In fact, if someone proposes such a thread I'll promote it as quickly as I can, I think it would be illuminating. Here are some definitions:
GROUND RULES:
Here is a starting list:
Nebraska Man - does not qualify, the initial publication was an interpretation of a single tooth, the rest is mostly all newspaper hype (including the (in)famous picture), and the original scientist determined it was a pig on further investigation. No scientist has since claimed it was a hominid fossil.
Piltdown Man - does not qualify: the hoax was perpetuated ON science, not by a scientist. It was exposed by science. China bird ancestor "fossils" - does not qualify: perpetuated by non-scientific people looking to make money, exposed by science. Personally I think we'd have to list almost every existing YEC creationist website (I say "almost" for scientific tentativity, as I am not aware of any that stick to the truth, but it is possible ...). Certainly every one that has a false definition of evolution or that portrays evolution incorrectly is a fraud. Certainly Carl Baugh (his degree is a hoax, it doesn't exist): Glen Rose Man - fraud perpetuated by Carl Baugh, exposed by science. Baugh (a creationist) continues to present it in his "museum" perpetuating his hoax to gullible people, complete with a "footprint" that the original carver admits to making. Kent Hovind is a shoe-in (convicted of fraud, his degree is a fraud from a paper mill) The "creation museum" (showing adam and eve and a vegetarian TRex) Then there is Harun Yahah (a muslim creationist, who also happens to be a convicted extortionist and anal rapist of underage women) - he puts Hovind to shame. Is that a good start? Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : - Edited by RAZD, : code correctionby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Thanks Ned,
Now it's the creationists turn to list all those evolutionist frauds and hoaxes. Enjoy by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Welcome to the fray, Kapyong.
It has a page on the Peppered Moth where it claims this experiment was a hoax, based on staged photographs! The page contains false nonsense and is clearly written by a creationist. I claim this as a Creationist Hoax. Yes, that the whole "icons of evolution" bit on peppered moths is a false portrayal of the science on peppered moths, and qualifies as a hoax all on its own, has been demonstrated on the Peppered Moths and Natural Selection" thread. I also note that the creationist article (by John Morris) that was cited is still up, still making false statements, still fraudulently representing what the experiment was designed to accomplish. So this hoax is ongoing now. They also cannot distinguish reality from jokeshttp://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoaxsites.html http://www.brookview.karoo.net/Stick_Insects/ Hilarious. Here's another fraudulent site: http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Pagesee http://www.conservapedia.com/Evolution for the usual creationist PRATTs Enjoy. Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Goose a link that seemed correct but was not clickable.by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hey Coyote,
I have to agree with you here, as most of the claims of "unreliability" can be shown to be outright fraud. Google {McMurdo Seal carbon date} and you get a list of creationist sites that all list the same basic story in various forms (it seems to be reaching into the category of urban myth). Here is one site: Radio Carbon Dating - Archaeology Expert
quote: Aside from the fact that "honest archaeologists" know about the reservoir effect and how to account for it, this site repeats a number of PRATTs and is obviously an unreliable site for an intelligent open-minded skeptic. This particular fraud is apparently due to Kent Hovind (what a surprise) misrepresenting a reported instance of the reservoir effect: CD011.4: C-14 age of a seal
quote: This is just another creationist taking something out of context and pretending they know something scientist don't know (or hide). This is a fraudulent claim for two reasons: (1) the carbon-14 dating method is based on atmospheric carbon being incorporated into the organic material being tested. (2) no mention is made of the reservoir effect, a well known and documented effect that recognizes that marine organisms are not incorporating atmospheric carbon. From Corrections to radiocarbon dates.
quote:(color for emPHAsis) In other words, reporting the seal age without the reservoir correction, or noting that a reservoir effect is involved, is not reporting the true measured age of the seal. Here are the listed corrections for locations around McMurdo Sound
You will note, that with these dates for the uncorrected reservoir effect, an 1300 year C-14 age for a seal in that area is completely expected, and not of any concern at all ... for an honest archaeologist ... or an open-minded skeptic. Meanwhile, Kent Hovind is in jail, convicted of fraud. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : ,, by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hey Nighttrain, I believe it was James
re Ron Wyatt, I don't know where to start ... The "boat shaped object" (where a larger picture shows some 20+ similar objects ... or the anchor\drogue stones ...
... I'd call them "hull beaters" Even christians think he's a fraud. Ron Wyatt Archaeological Research Fraud Documentation (WAR, W.A.R.) Enjoy by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Peg, Message 362
there have been many scientific frauds in the recent past that show that some will go to extraordinary lengths for evolution Seeing as no single hoax has been exposed by a creationist ... Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : peg by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Another one is the falsehoods creationists say about dendrochronology, such as documented on this (closed) thread regarding Don Batten's Tree Ring "study".
Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hey Taz,
We know for a fact that they have the knowledge. No we don't. We know that they have been given the information. You are dealing with people that don't know what falsehood is, because they only have one test for truth: does it fit inside their black box. See Message 185 and Message 186 for my take on this behavior. You can see examples on that thread. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The seal is already there, he just doesn't go into the detail for the C-14 age in the area the seal was found in, so he may want to add it.
CD011.4: C-14 age of a seal The coal one may be there, but I can't find it. Of course this whole list is nothing but a list of creationist falsehoods and fraudulent claims An Index to Creationist Claims Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : . Edited by RAZD, : update Edited by RAZD, : added Edited by RAZD, : sp by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hey fallacycop
A lie requires knowledge (of the fact that you are uttering a falsehoods) and intent (to deceive). This, of course, lets off all the deluded and ignorant creationists that think they are passing on the truth and don't know the facts or the reality. It comes down to the Dawkins Dilemma: anyone who doesn't understand is either to stupid, ignorant, malicious, or insane, ... to which I add deluded. The fraud and hoax and lies issue really lies in the area of malicious: intentionally promoting false information in order to mislead and delude the gullible wanna-believers, and make money fame etc in the process. The people who are deluded and mislead, and who then regurgitate the fraud\hoax\lies, are really only guilty of not checking the facts or not knowing how to check the facts against reality. Take "someonewhocares", who came to this forum full of pride in having put together a website for the ->>TRUTH<<-, and who had a number of falsehoods included in his essay, including Lucy's Knee, and issues with the age of the earth. He has made some very minor "corrections" to his essay since visiting here (see what he did with Lucy's Knee), but they are not significant when you see he still includes Piltdown Man, and erroneous information on the upright posture of australopithicus. For an essay that pretends to be highly concerned with the ->>TRUTH<<-, it includes a number of easy to spot falsehoods. This kid is not stupid, nor ignorant, he doesn't appear to be malicious, but he is curiously unable to ascertain the truth of some things, because of confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, and delusion: he thinks he is right, and that eventually the evidence will back him up. He, rather obviously, has only one test for ->>TRUTH<<-, and that is his belief. To the extent that he knowingly and intentionally includes information in his essay, without knowing\understanding that it is false, means it is a fraud, full of falsehoods. This is typical of most creationist sites that just regurgitate false information: they believe it is true (or will be). Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
See Jesus Tomb Found
Enjoy.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
See A Creation Website For Children
This link was proudly provided by the author:
garbage in garbage out website Setting up a site specifically to feed false information to children is pretty despicable in my opinion. To be proud of it, is just evidence of delusion. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : chain Edited by RAZD, : ... Edited by RAZD, : e by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • • |
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
For Doubletime - to see if he can add any new ones.
Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Another creationist hoaxster to add to the list:
For Doubletime, I just checked on another of your pet hoaxes:
Along with the new guinnea man that was said to be one of our ancestors that lived today but later on turn out to belong to a modern race. ( Another HOAX) I did a google on "new guinea man fossil" and once again there were few hits that were relevant: Fossil Hominids: Big Daddy?
quote: So there you are: this is a hoax hoax - it never was misrepresented by science, but is a creationist fabrication from head to toe. And not just any creationist fabrication but a Jack Chick fabrication ... From Catholic AnswersCatholic Answers quote: Notice that this is not an "evolutionist" response to the quackery of Jack Chick, but it comes from the Catholic Church. Jack Chick is a hoax, anything he says is most likely either a total fabrication, an outright lie, or an absurd falsehood. His "new guinea man" is but one example of his false hoaxes. Enjoy by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
This is contributed by wirrkalaj in Message 73 on 101 evidences for a young age...
The 'stones of Ica'
CH710.1: Dinosaurs on Ica stones
quote: An admitted fraud, which in science would be sufficient evidence to discard them as evidence of anything, just as Piltdown man was discarded when scientists demonstrated that it was a fraud. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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