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Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Speciation + Evolution = More Diversity | |||||||||||||||||||
westernjoe Junior Member (Idle past 5587 days) Posts: 9 Joined: |
here was your question:
What mechanism prohibits the micro-evolutionary events that everyone admits occur from adding up to a macro-evolutionary event over time? so why is it off-topic for you to define what "evolution" is? why is that so difficult for you? I cannot answer your challenge without you first giving me an accurate definition of what evolution (micro and/or macro is)....if you do not care to do so then the discussion is pointless. My argument against your challenge is that "micro" evolution doesn't even exist, as defined by your theory. It seems to me you've attempted to get around the real issue by defining your theory in a very broad way, as something like "heritable changes over time." but the problem is, ToE was constructed to explain the buildup of genomes...therefore, any ole change in bodies does nothing to explain where genomes came from...that's why ToE must have a tie to changes in dna sequences. So just take a deep breath, invest a minute or so, and define the theory of evolution. I would also like to know if you believe micro and macro are accomplished via the same mechanism. Take your time....I'll be waiting...this is going to be fun. Edited by westernjoe, : No reason given. Edited by westernjoe, : No reason given.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
hi westernjoe,
This is the third time I have requested you go to Message 193 to discuss the definition of evolution. Notice that the topic of that thread IS the definition of evolution. here was your question: No, that was Coyote, and he was also off-topic, if you read for comprehension you could see that.
Take your time....I'll be waiting...this is going to be fun.
Curiously you can wait forever on this thread and keep mucking it up OR you can go to the thread that IS about the topic you want to discuss and continue there.
The link provided is to a thread titled "Definition of Evolution" so if you want to continue a discussion of what the definition is, THAT IS THE THREAD TO DO IT ON. so why is it off-topic for you to define what "evolution" is? why is that so difficult for you? I cannot answer your challenge without you first giving me an accurate definition of what evolution (micro and/or macro is)....if you do not care to do so then the discussion is pointless. My argument against your challenge is that "micro" evolution doesn't even exist, as defined by your theory. I find it rather humorous that someone who purports to want to engage in an intelligent and reason based discussion on this topic, cannot figure out that they can do so ON THE THREAD LINKED ABOVE. my reply is here: Message 193 Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : grow a clue eh? Edited by RAZD, : highlighted the THIRD time Edited by RAZD, : ... Edited by RAZD, : No reason given. Edited by RAZD, : hide Edited by RAZD, : youme by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
WJ, we try very hard to keep threads on a reasonably well-focused topics. This particular thread is very narrowly defined.
You have been asked to stay with the topic. If you don't want to then do not post to this thread at all. There are plenty of other places for you to post and you could start your own thread. If you fail to control yourself you will receive short (and longer) suspensions.
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westernjoe Junior Member (Idle past 5587 days) Posts: 9 Joined: |
I'm absolutely on-topic, as I am disputing your very premise, which is your definition of evolution.
Evolution - the change in hereditary traits in populations from generation to generation http://www.williamjhudson.net/evolution/glossary.html "Evolution: A change in the gene pool of a population over time. The process of evolution can be summarized in three sentences: Genes mutate. Individuals are selected. Populations evolve." You then asked for a "mechanism" that would stop this so-called evolution from turning into macro evolution......but by doing so you are assuming that your mechanism of microevolution actually exists. I have challenged you to show me an example and you refuse to do it. If you don't care to debate fine. If you can't even present one example of evolution, as your theory defines it, then I suppose the debate is over. But you must also realize that it is then wrong-headed of you to expect others to present a mechanism that will somehow stop a mechanism of which doesn't even exist. In otherwords, you've constructed a strawman of an argument. Edited by westernjoe, : No reason given.
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westernjoe Junior Member (Idle past 5587 days) Posts: 9 Joined: |
and let's get to your next point -- which is also highly on-topic:
Speciation - the division of parent populations into reproductively isolated daughter populations - is also an observed and documented fact, a process that occurs frequently in the natural world around us. I dispute this because you don't even know what a "species" is. Darwinians call different varieties of finches different "speices" yet most of them can interbreed and produce viable, fertile offspring. Same with different varieties of bears. The polar bear and brown bear can produce fertilie offspring as well, yet' they're labled different "species." Finally, your statement is assuming that the "speciation" process happens via the mechanism propped up by darwinists.....which is "changes in gene frequencies over time." This, as well, I dispute and you are welcome to show me an example showing otherwise. If you are going to create a new post and make unfounded assertions, you should expect people to take you up on them.
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westernjoe Junior Member (Idle past 5587 days) Posts: 9 Joined: |
And to the Admin, if you can't keep your big nose out of the way so I can expose this sham of the theory then I'll move on. Go ahead and ban me, who cares. RAFD is too chicken to debate the topic he brought up anyway...I'm getting bored.
Edited by westernjoe, : No reason given.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2325 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
And to the Admin, if you can't keep your big nose out of the way so I can expose this sham of the theory then I'll move on.
You're free to expose this "sham", just not on this thread. Start a new in this forum. You don't have to move on, you can make a thread about it right there. And once it gets promoted, you can discuss it with RAZD (or others) as much as you like. Further, I would not advise being that hostile to admins.
Go ahead and ban me, who cares.
I don't think he'll ban you outright, normally, people are suspended for a short time first, then increasingly longer times, until they finally are banned.
RAFD is too chicken to debate the topic he brought up anyway...I'm getting bored.
Even more reason to start a new topic about it. There are people that are interested in discussing this. I hunt for the truth
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
westernjoe
I'm absolutely on-topic,
one wonders if you are unable to realize that your reply is already posted, and that you are unable to follow links provided.
my reply is here: Message 193 "Message 193" STOP WASTING THIS THREAD WITH OFF-TOPIC BANTER The alternative explanation is that your only purpose is disruption of discussions.
Edited by RAZD, : hide Edited by RAZD, : youme by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
well westernjoe, another diversion off-topic?
another attempt to disrupt the discussion of increased diversity after speciation, the topic of this thread? I dispute this because you don't even know what a "species" is.
This can be discussed on the Definition of Species thread.
my reply is here: Message 21 The reason that these comments of yours are off-topic, is that these definitions HAVE been discussed, and we don't need to tie up this thread discussing them all over again. IF you have a problem with the definitions presented, then go to the threads that discuss those definitions.
If you are going to create a new post and make unfounded assertions, you should expect people to take you up on them. Curiously these definitions are anything but unfounded assertions, which you would realize if you followed the links to where they are discussed.
This thread begins with these definitions, so if you want to dispute them then go to the appropriate threads to do so. If you can't understand this simple request then I will have to ask that this thread be close in order to keep you off it.
Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : hide by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
well westernjoe, I expect to see you suspended soon.
And to the Admin, if you can't keep your big nose out of the way so I can expose this sham of the theory then I'll move on. Go ahead and ban me, who cares. RAFD is too chicken to debate the topic he brought up anyway...I'm getting bored. What is hilarious about all this petty posturing of yours, is that it is a completely ridiculous position when you look at the FACT that your posts have been quoted and replied to, and all your need to do is go to the appropriate threads, that the only thing keeping you from the discussion is your inability to realize this. Once again, my reply is here: Message 193 They say you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Now if you really want some fun, try those links. If on the other hand, all you want to do is to continue to disrupt this thread then I will have to ask that it be closed. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : hide by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
I'd suggest that, at this point, the best option is to simply stop feeding the troll.
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
It won't be closed. WJ will be if necessary.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
westernjoe
... I am disputing ... your definition of evolution. your reply is here (put your cursor over these words and right click to activate this link) Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : .. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
westernjoe,
I dispute this because you don't even know what a "species" is. your reply is here (put your cursor over these words and right click to activate this link) Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
hey Rahvin,
I'd suggest that, at this point, the best option is to simply stop feeding the troll. A troll doesn't cite evolution textbooks, I think he just doesn't understand (1) how many different threads there are on this site, (2) that these topics have already been discussed before, (3) that a thread dedicated to the Definition of Evolution is a better thread to discuss Definition of Evolution than any one he currently happens to be on, (4) that a thread dedicated to the Definition of Species is a better thread to discuss Definition of Species than any one he currently happens to be on, (5) that threads are limited to ~300 posts, so content that is not part of the thread debate wastes space, and (6) that I am more than ready and willing to debate him on these points on their proper threads, and have in fact already started there. Plus, I would like to see more about his spirit dog concept. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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