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Author Topic:   The race issue
PaulK
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Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 44 of 134 (492085)
12-28-2008 4:34 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Peg
12-28-2008 4:08 AM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
quote:
the source of the quote i posted comes from the book by George Smith, of the British Museum, in his book "Chaldean Account of Genesis" He had something to do with the excavations that found the many towers in the ancient city of Babylon, some of which they dated to 3,000 bce.
You mean that your source attributes it to George Smith. However your source is not Smith directly and Smith would not write about anything discovered in the 1950s, since he wrote in 1876.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Peg, posted 12-28-2008 4:08 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Peg, posted 12-28-2008 4:55 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 46 of 134 (492099)
12-28-2008 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Peg
12-28-2008 4:55 AM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
I have found some of the text online, at Google Books and it seems that you - or your unnamed source - have misrepresented Smith
Firstly your "quote" more closely resembles a quote from the Christian writer Eusebius and is not even an exact representation of that. Secondly Smith admits that the only references to "speech" are a guess - he does not know the true meaning of the word. Even the reference to a "tower" is questionable - let alone the identification of a specific "tower".
Worse for you, the "columns" referred to by Smith are columns of writingon a tablet. Not actual columns. It seems that your source had not read Smith carefully enough to even understand that much.
(And, of course, even if Smith had found an Assyrian version of a Babylonian legend that resembled the Bible story it would not be significant evidence that there was an actual historieforecal event. Especially as the archaeological and linguistic evidence shows that human peoples and languages had split long before).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Peg, posted 12-28-2008 4:55 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 4:56 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 55 of 134 (492193)
12-29-2008 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Peg
12-29-2008 4:56 AM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
I have visited the British Museum on a number of occasions. In fact I recently visited the Babylon exhibition, which had nothing about Smith's tablets, even in the sections relating to the "Tower of Babel" story.ving you the benefit of the doubt.
Of course I doubt that you know the contents of the British Museum any better than you know the contents of Smith's book.
But thanks for proving that you have no interest in the truth. Now I don't need to waste any more time giving you the benefit of the doubt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 4:56 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 6:41 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 60 of 134 (492201)
12-29-2008 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Peg
12-29-2008 6:41 AM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
quote:
im not trying to get into an argument over this... but i did not misquote smith...page 17 if you missed it.
The only reference to the Tower of Babel on page 17 is an assertion that Smith had found a parallel account to the Biblical story in Assyrian tablets.
Let me remind you of your actual claim (as edited to remove the reference to the '50s)
... archeologist unearthed several temple towers at the ancient site of babylon and one inscription read "The building of this temple offended the gods. In a night they threw down what had been built. They scattered them abroad, and made strange their speech. The progress they impeded.” They dated this particular tower at 3,000 BCE.
What Smith found was not an inscription on a temple, but a clay tablet which is translated on p160. It does not match your quote. It does not say that the "strong place" was a temple, or that it was the building of it that offended the Gods nor that the Gods made their speech "strange" - indeed the only references to "speech" are, as Smith admits (p163) a guess at the translation of a word he does not know.
According to Wikipedia the "tower" Smith believes that the story refers to - the ziggurat of Birs Nimrud does not date to 3000 BC. The large ziggurat was built by Nebuchadrezzar II (the Biblical Nebuchadnezzar) and the smaller ziggurat that preceded it dates to only the 2nd Millennium BC (and is therefore no earlier than 2000 BC).

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 Message 57 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 6:41 AM Peg has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 76 of 134 (492322)
12-30-2008 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Peg
12-29-2008 7:37 PM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
quote:
When the assyrian kings library was discovered, they found around 10,000 tablets...they collected up all they could and took them to the british museum. Its from these tablets that we have information about ancient Assyria and its kings and their way of life etc.
the following quote is found on page 48 in smiths book. Smith being one of the interpreters of the tablets.
Chaldean Account of Genesis Page 48 writes:
They say that the first inhabitants of the earth,
glorying in their own strength and size and despising
the gods, undertook to raise a tower whose top should
reach the sky, in the place in which Babylon now
stands; but when it approached the heaven the
winds assisted the gods, and overthrew the work
upon its contrivers, and its ruins are said to be
still at Babylon ; and the gods introduced a diversity
of tongues among men, who till that time had all
spoken the same language ; and a war arose between
Cronos and Titan. The place in which they built
the tower is now called Babylon on account of the
confusion of tongues, for confusion is by the He
brews called Babel. Euseb. Prcep. Evan. lib. ix. ;
Syncel. Chron. xliv. ; Euseb. Chron. xiii.

That quote does NOT come from the Assyrian tablets. The sources are even listed at the end ! (Eusebius and Syncellus). You misrepresent Smith yet again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 7:37 PM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Peg, posted 12-30-2008 6:49 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 82 of 134 (492340)
12-30-2008 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Peg
12-30-2008 6:49 AM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
quote:
i have no need to misrepresent anyone
Which does not change the fact that you have repeatedly misrepresented Smith.
Are you now prepared to be honest and admit that your "archaeological evidence" was nothing more than a highly speculative translation of a myth or legend ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Peg, posted 12-30-2008 6:49 AM Peg has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 98 of 134 (492571)
01-01-2009 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Peg
01-01-2009 7:45 AM


Re: Peg's misrepresentations...
quote:
its getting slightly ridiculous dont you think? Chasing tails after semantics is a waste of bandwidth.
It isn't chasing semantics, though. It is presenting the proof that you have misrepresented Smith.
quote:
I have not misrepresented smith. Did you or anyone else bother to read the book?
Of course some of us have. That is how we KNOW that you have misrepresented Smith.
It's been proven here. Why attempt to deny it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Peg, posted 01-01-2009 7:45 AM Peg has not replied

  
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