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Author Topic:   American Christianity
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 1 of 12 (490887)
12-09-2008 1:14 PM


Some interesting comments.
Just a moment...
quote:
Superstition and delusion are still around and strong as ever, as the “Obama is a dragon” people clearly prove, but they are just a silly fringe group. The reason they exist is because we have Americanized Christianity and Jesus Christ to such an extent it has become a completely different religion altogether. The American image of Christ is a reassuring and slightly racist image of a Caucasian Jesus with flowing chestnut locks and sparkling blue eyes. He loves good ol’ traditional American values such as capitalism, pickup trucks, guns and hard work; he’s a man’s man, our savior and our favorite drinking buddy. This manufactured American Jesus is a bizarre doppelganger, transformed to create an offensive political puppet. Though he may not be offensive to many American Christians, our bastard messiah is supremely offensive to anyone who cares about what Jesus Christ actually represents.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Buzsaw, posted 12-15-2008 6:59 PM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 4 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2008 7:32 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 12 (491408)
12-15-2008 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by NosyNed
12-09-2008 1:14 PM


Superstition and delusion are still around and strong as ever, as the “Obama is a dragon” people clearly prove, but they are just a silly fringe group. The reason they exist is because we have Americanized Christianity and Jesus Christ to such an extent it has become a completely different religion altogether. The American image of Christ is a reassuring and slightly racist image of a Caucasian Jesus with flowing chestnut locks and sparkling blue eyes. He loves good ol’ traditional American values such as capitalism, pickup trucks, guns and hard work; he’s a man’s man, our savior and our favorite drinking buddy. This manufactured American Jesus is a bizarre doppelganger, transformed to create an offensive political puppet. Though he may not be offensive to many American Christians, our bastard messiah is supremely offensive to anyone who cares about what Jesus Christ actually represents.
1. He was into good wine. He made the best for the feasters at the wedding and one of the charges of the religious Pharisees was that on occasion he ate and drank with publican sinners.
2. I doubt that he would have voted for Obama, but he might have a glass of wine with him over at the pub and attempt to enlighten him as to his choice of churches.
3. Jesus was considered a white man as are most Jews. Nothing about being racist by being born into a race.
4. No flowing locks. He was no Nazarite. He looked manly just like most to the point that Judas had to signify by a kiss which was Jesus.
5. Blue eyes? Don't know. Did some Jews have blue eyes? I would suppose so.
6. His disciples were inspired by his Holy Spirit to work if they wanted to eat.
7. Plenty of capitalism in the Bible, both OT and NT. Lidia was a seller of purple cloth. Peter and others dealt in fish.
As to what he represented, books were written on that. It's called the New Testament.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by NosyNed, posted 12-09-2008 1:14 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by kuresu, posted 12-15-2008 7:22 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 3 of 12 (491410)
12-15-2008 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Buzsaw
12-15-2008 6:59 PM


Jesus was considered a white man as are most Jews
Well, except the source quoted by ned states 'caucasian'. This is understood in America to mean white people. However, caucasian is not necessarily white, as the term was used to try and describe Europe, North Africa, and parts of Asia.
Jesus was most certainly not white, as in white like me, but that is how Jesus is presented in most churches. Most likely he was olive-skinned, much like the middle easteners are.

This message is a reply to:
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 4 of 12 (491411)
12-15-2008 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by NosyNed
12-09-2008 1:14 PM


Re Americanized Jesus
Hi Ned,
Thanks for pointing out this article.
I been preaching the message portrayed in this article for 46 years.
I liked the part of the article that talks about His death.
The ideals of mercy, service, poverty, self-sacrifice and martyrdom aren't even respected because he has been turned into a cliche, and this has to be the greatest sin. The Romans (or the Jews if you're Mel Gibson) may have killed Christ, but we Americans dealt Jesus Christ his death stroke.
Jesus is not a free ATM where you can name and claim and get whatever you want.
He is not just one of the good ole boys either.
He is the savior of the world.
He will judge the world and everyone in it on judgment day.
As far as His death it was caused by my sins when He took them upon himself so I could be free and reunited with God the Father.
The means implemented to bring about that moment was the Jews imploring Pilate to crucify Him and Pilate wanting to please the Jews obliged them and carried out the death sentence.
But let no one fool you it was my sins that killed Jesus.
God Bless,
Edited by ICANT, : spelling

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by NosyNed, posted 12-09-2008 1:14 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 5 of 12 (491412)
12-15-2008 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by kuresu
12-15-2008 7:22 PM


Missing the point (again)
This site has a picture that is based on reason to show what Christ would have most likely looked like.
But the point isn't what he looked like!!
quote:
He loves good ol’ traditional American values such as capitalism, pickup trucks, guns and hard work; he’s a man’s man, our savior and our favorite drinking buddy.
This is what the point is. If we take the NT as truth. Jesus would NOT support the above (well, maybe hard work). He would be totally appalled by North American values. He may well not want to vote for Obama but he would definitely not have supported McCain. Far from it.
The America of today is a bit old testament. It is certainly not at all new testament. Jesus would be horrified.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by kuresu, posted 12-15-2008 7:22 PM kuresu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2008 7:43 PM NosyNed has replied
 Message 8 by Buzsaw, posted 12-15-2008 10:29 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 6 of 12 (491413)
12-15-2008 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by NosyNed
12-15-2008 7:32 PM


Re: Missing the point (again)
Hi Ned,
NosyNed writes:
He would be totally appalled by North American values.
Forget what North American values of Jesus are.
Jesus is totally appalled at the people who claim to be serving Him.
Some 80% of Americans claim to be Christians.
I would be suprised if 4% really are.
We are probably the most ungodly nation on earth.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by NosyNed, posted 12-15-2008 7:32 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by NosyNed, posted 12-15-2008 8:03 PM ICANT has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 7 of 12 (491416)
12-15-2008 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by ICANT
12-15-2008 7:43 PM


Ungodly
Well, 4% might be a bit harsh. But the whole world isn't doing all that well living up to the values espoused in the NT. Maybe it is unfair to Americans to single them out.
Other than the fact that they insist on making such a big deal of being so goddammed godly. Which is annoying when, as you say, they don't do a great job of living up to it.

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 Message 6 by ICANT, posted 12-15-2008 7:43 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 12 (491425)
12-15-2008 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by NosyNed
12-15-2008 7:32 PM


Re: Missing the point (again)
NosyNed writes:
He loves good ol’ traditional American values such as capitalism, pickup trucks, guns and hard work; he’s a man’s man, our savior and our favorite drinking buddy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what the point is. If we take the NT as truth. Jesus would NOT support the above (well, maybe hard work). He would be totally appalled by North American values. He may well not want to vote for Obama but he would definitely not have supported McCain. Far from it.
1. Later in his ministry he advised his disciples to carry swords/armament. Now it would be a gun.
2. His disciples and followers were largely capitalists, though they shared willingly with one another. Sharing was all voluntary as was the case with Ananias and Sapphira. Paul told them it was theirs to give or to keep, but they lied and God made an example out of them for the lie.
3. How do you know he wouldn't ride in a pickup truck today? He had no earthly possessions then, but his disciples had them which they made available for his use.
4. Politics; well as a matter of fact, we don't have much to go on, but I really don't think he'd have been comfortable or accepted in Obama's church. For that matter, he'd not be accepted well in a lot of other churches today by claiming that he was the only way to God and the path to God was very narrow; relatively few finding it.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by NosyNed, posted 12-15-2008 7:32 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by bluescat48, posted 12-15-2008 11:03 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 9 of 12 (491427)
12-15-2008 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Buzsaw
12-15-2008 10:29 PM


Re: Missing the point (again)
4. Politics; well as a matter of fact, we don't have much to go on, but I really don't think he'd have been comfortable or accepted in Obama's church. For that matter, he'd not be accepted well in a lot of other churches today by claiming that he was the only way to God and the path to God was very narrow; relatively few finding it.
Politic? What has Obama's church have to do with politics? What does any church have to do with politics.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Buzsaw, posted 12-15-2008 10:29 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2008 12:01 AM bluescat48 has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 12 (491516)
12-17-2008 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by bluescat48
12-15-2008 11:03 PM


Re: Jesus, Obama And Church
bluescat writes:
Politic? What has Obama's church have to do with politics? What does any church have to do with politics.
Obama's choice of churches may have some bearing on Jesus's opinion of Obama's brand of Christianity.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by bluescat48, posted 12-15-2008 11:03 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by bluescat48, posted 12-17-2008 7:37 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 11 of 12 (491534)
12-17-2008 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Buzsaw
12-17-2008 12:01 AM


Re: Jesus, Obama And Church
Obama's choice of churches may have some bearing on Jesus's opinion of Obama's brand of Christianity.
I would doubt it. If so, why hasn't he complained about how the various "brands" of Christianity differ so much yet all claim to do his bidding?

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2008 12:01 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Buzsaw, posted 12-17-2008 11:33 AM bluescat48 has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 12 (491548)
12-17-2008 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by bluescat48
12-17-2008 7:37 AM


Re: Jesus, Obama And Church
bluescat writes:
I would doubt it. If so, why hasn't he complained about how the various "brands" of Christianity differ so much yet all claim to do his bidding?
In fact both he and his disciples said a whole lot about counterfeits, imposters, and false doctrines/prophets, regarding them, on occasion, as demonic doctrines.
There's a lot of deviant forms of Christianity which Jesus would denounce today. He would most likely look favorably on forms of Christianity which were closest to his fundamentals, i.e. the Biblical fundamentalists who teach what Jesus claimed, that he was the only way to God and eternal life. That's why he was hated and crucified. That's the primary reason why his true followers today are hated and millions have been martyred throughout the Christian era.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by bluescat48, posted 12-17-2008 7:37 AM bluescat48 has not replied

  
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