Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,422 Year: 3,679/9,624 Month: 550/974 Week: 163/276 Day: 3/34 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Political Prognostication
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5542 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 61 of 67 (485599)
10-10-2008 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by AZPaul3
03-08-2008 3:40 PM


Time is coming to see whether you were right or not.
I wonder if you still feel the same way about tht election

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by AZPaul3, posted 03-08-2008 3:40 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5542 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 62 of 67 (488702)
11-15-2008 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by AZPaul3
03-08-2008 3:40 PM


Obama is a losing proposition for the Democrats.
So you turned out to be wrong. I was wondering what do you think went wrong with your analysis. Do you think that (a) you missed something essential for properly understanding this election or (b) this election was a fluke.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by AZPaul3, posted 03-08-2008 3:40 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2534 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 63 of 67 (488705)
11-15-2008 5:57 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by tesla
03-08-2008 9:10 PM


drinking age
just a minor note:
During the vietnam war, the drinking age was decided by the states. Many states allowed you to drink at 18--because you could die for your country at 18. This, of course, was the era of the draft.
We have an all-volunteer service (paid, of course) now. If the drinking age is still determined by the states, they have all decided on 21. This has to do with largely physiological/psychological factors. In Sweden, for instance, while you can drink in bars and restaurants at 18, you have to be 20 to take anything home with you.
However, there is an important caveat. If you are in the military, and under 21 (but over 18), you can drink. Granted, you have to buy the alcohol on base (if I understand correctly). So yes, you can die and drink at 18, but you have to be in the military.
When your country no longer tells you that you have to die for it, but asks, it's a little ridiculous to make your statement.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by tesla, posted 03-08-2008 9:10 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by subbie, posted 11-15-2008 11:34 AM kuresu has not replied
 Message 65 by anglagard, posted 11-16-2008 1:56 AM kuresu has not replied
 Message 66 by tesla, posted 11-27-2008 1:45 AM kuresu has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1276 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 64 of 67 (488708)
11-15-2008 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by kuresu
11-15-2008 5:57 AM


Re: drinking age
quote:
If the drinking age is still determined by the states, they have all decided on 21. This has to do with largely physiological/psychological factors.
Actually, it has mostly to do with the federal government forcing them to make it 21 or lose federal money for various things, highway funds primarily.
So much for states' rights.
quote:
However, there is an important caveat. If you are in the military, and under 21 (but over 18), you can drink. Granted, you have to buy the alcohol on base (if I understand correctly).
Not sure this is accurate. It may be as a practical matter that states won't prosecute those in the military who drink, but I'm pretty sure it's still illegal.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by kuresu, posted 11-15-2008 5:57 AM kuresu has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 858 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 65 of 67 (488734)
11-16-2008 1:56 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by kuresu
11-15-2008 5:57 AM


Re: drinking age
Kuresu writes:
However, there is an important caveat. If you are in the military, and under 21 (but over 18), you can drink. Granted, you have to buy the alcohol on base (if I understand correctly). So yes, you can die and drink at 18, but you have to be in the military.
False {ABE - unless the rules changed without my knowledge}.
I was in the military when Reagan changed the rules back in late 1984 or early 1985. Prior to whatever executive order Reagan imposed on the military, they even had vending machines that had beer along with soda, I know because I often bought a last beer out of them before sleep, $0.50 a can.
This was because some clown got hammered drinking on an army base, drove off into civilian land and wiped out a family in a DWI. One person screws up therefore everyone has too much freedom, the credo of the right-wingers.
The old rule was if one was old enough to kill or be killed, they were old enough to drink, even if they were 17. The new rule was whatever the state law stated. In Washington State where I was when the change took effect, the law was 21.
ABE - looks like the current rule is explained here.
Edited by anglagard, : No reason given.
Edited by anglagard, : No reason given.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by kuresu, posted 11-15-2008 5:57 AM kuresu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 11-27-2008 10:10 AM anglagard has not replied

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1614 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 66 of 67 (489434)
11-27-2008 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by kuresu
11-15-2008 5:57 AM


Re: drinking age
However, there is an important caveat. If you are in the military, and under 21 (but over 18), you can drink. Granted, you have to buy the alcohol on base (if I understand correctly). So yes, you can die and drink at 18, but you have to be in the military.
When your country no longer tells you that you have to die for it, but asks, it's a little ridiculous to make your statement.
i was simply pointing out that little restrictions open the door to greater restriction. i am not suggesting deregulation of everything.
lets go back to the drinking age example. i know that you can set the age to 21, and have less problems in society because of maturity levels. now, we could argue that a person can be 45 and have the maturity of the average 17 year old, and that you have those that are 17 that have a maturity level closer to the common maturity levels of 35 year olds. but its useless because what is the average maturity level for being able to drink responsibly is well past the age of 21.
the argument is more about at what age do we allow citizens to be considered free adults, with the capacity to make their own judgements? if you ask many lawmakers, they may reply: "never".
it is my opinion, that the leaders of our society consider the free people of this nation incapable of makeing descisions for themselves, if they differ from the lawmakers opinion of what we should be allowed to do, or not do.
for instance, the seatbelt law, which is the issue im really most annoyed with, is valid in the eyes of many, because lives are saved. but we could save lives if we stopped playing fotball too. or skydiving. or any other dangerous sport that boasts a high injury or death rate. but people must die for our planet, or our race of man to survive. the planet will not get larger as we grow in population. its rescources shrink as we grow. eventually, as we live longer, we will destroy the balance of the planet and will end in either: mass deaths from starvation, war, crime, and natural disaters and desease. or; the populations of the planet will be limited similiar to china. in that a couple may only have 1 child.
now i am bothered with the need for such an act to befall this planet. either the former or the latter, and would hope instead a slow down in population growths, to be a little less or equal to the global population (balanced). the rate we die, is just as important. but none more important than HOW we die. if by our own discision, be it foolish, or unlucky, then it is our death and not murder. and if in no danger to another, we should be allowed to decide the risk for ourselves.
that is a freedom. i believe i should have. to play football. to go skydiving. to parachute off buildings or cliffs. to drive my car without wearing a seatbelt. IF it is MY car. the exeption to the rule, should only be if children are in the vehichle. then the adults and the children should be in seatbelts. because the children do not have the capacity to make the descision themselves, and the adult if not in a seatbelt could bounce around and hurt children who are in their seatbelts, if the adult is not in theirs in the event of a wreck. the justification here, is the childrens lives would be put in danger if the adult was not in a seatbelt and i can see the law in that, justifgied.
again tho, for a single driver, being grown, should have his/her own choice when no others are in any danger.
i just fear what our society is going to be like 40 years from now. when everywhere you step youll vbe on a camera. spy devices for sound and heat vision devices become as common as a watch, and we the people of america at the mercy of a goverment we no longer have the ability to combat in the event we lose control over it. thats all.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by kuresu, posted 11-15-2008 5:57 AM kuresu has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3122 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 67 of 67 (489456)
11-27-2008 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by anglagard
11-16-2008 1:56 AM


Re: drinking age
However, there is an important caveat. If you are in the military, and under 21 (but over 18), you can drink. Granted, you have to buy the alcohol on base (if I understand correctly). So yes, you can die and drink at 18, but you have to be in the military.
Incorrect, the law now is that all military personnel have to follow the state drinking laws whether you buy alcohol on or off base, the only exception is a base within 50 miles of Mexico or Canada.
DoD Instruction 1015.10 writes:
The minimum drinking age on a DoD installation located in a State (including the District of Columbia) shall be consistent with the age established by the law of that State as the State minimum drinking age. Minimum drinking age means the minimum age established for persons who may purchase, possess, or consume alcoholic beverages.
In the case of a DoD installation located in more than one State or in one State but within 50 miles of another State or Mexico or Canada, the minimum drinking age on that DoD installation shall be the lowest applicable age of the State in which the DoD installation is located or the State or jurisdiction of Mexico or Canada that is within 50 miles of such DoD installation.
The minimum drinking age on a DoD installation located outside the United States shall be 18 years of age. Higher minimum drinking age will be based on international treaties and agreements and on the local situation as determined by the local installation commander.
If drinking outside of the U.S. the drinking age for military is 18 unless ammended by a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between that country and the US.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by anglagard, posted 11-16-2008 1:56 AM anglagard has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024