Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Milley/Urey revisited
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 1 of 9 (486232)
10-17-2008 9:18 AM


quote:
Miller's well-known experiments first done in 1952 used water along with methane, ammonia and hydrogen, the kinds of gases then thought to have dominated the Earth's oxygen-free atmosphere more than two billion years ago.
His sparks turned the mixture red, then yellow-brown, and made a number of amino acids, including glycine and alanine, commonly found in proteins.
But soon after, Miller had revised those experiments by injecting hot steam into the gas mixture, so that conditions resembled those you might find in an erupting volcano.
These experiments were the ones that intrigued Jeffrey Bada. Because not long after Miller's original experiments, it became clear the Earth's early atmosphere was nothing like the "reducing" mixture simulated in his apparatus.
So far, so normal. However, the exciting thing is that some original samples have been found from these experiments. Including the revised experimental conditions that Miller had only written about in vague terms.
quote:
"We started sorting through these, and lo and behold, we found a whole collection, almost a complete collection, of the extract samples from the volcanic experiments. And so we just went at it, using the state-of-the-art techniques we have today and analysed these samples." [says Professor Bada]
quote:
Miller, using the old methods, had found five amino acids; Jeffrey Bada and his teams tracked down 22. What is more, the overall chemical yields were often higher than in the first set of experiments - the mixture appeared to be more fertile.
BBC News

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by bluescat48, posted 10-17-2008 1:49 PM Modulous has not replied
 Message 3 by Coragyps, posted 10-23-2008 10:44 PM Modulous has replied
 Message 4 by Deftil, posted 10-23-2008 11:50 PM Modulous has not replied
 Message 7 by Stile, posted 10-24-2008 3:18 PM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 6 of 9 (486738)
10-24-2008 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Coragyps
10-23-2008 10:44 PM


That would be fascinating, thanks. My email should be not so cunningly hidden behind the mail button.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Coragyps, posted 10-23-2008 10:44 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 8 of 9 (486810)
10-24-2008 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Stile
10-24-2008 3:18 PM


Re: Some musings
Are they saying that the samples were more successful because the present-day equipment found things that 50 year old equipment did not find? That is... the 22 amino acids were present 50 years ago, just not detectable by Miller/Urey?
Or (and I find this much more impressive) are they saying that the samples are more successful than previously thought because those 5 amino acids in the samples have gone on to evolve into (or somehow otherwise create) 22 amino acids on their own over the last 50 years?
I think the former, rather than the latter, is what they were arguing for. If the 22 amino acids came along some time after the experiment, I'd suspect contamination rather than some revolutionary chemical evolution discovery
Also: I'm not sure if they found the amino acids, or evidence of the previous existence of those amino acids.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Stile, posted 10-24-2008 3:18 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024