Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,818 Year: 3,075/9,624 Month: 920/1,588 Week: 103/223 Day: 1/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Is there a border dividing life from non-life?
dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4615 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 109 of 132 (479555)
08-28-2008 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by AlphaOmegakid
08-25-2008 4:15 PM


Re: Resurrection of topic due to interest
Are we talking organism death or cellular death AOKid?
wiki writes:
Precise medical definition of death, however, becomes more problematic, paradoxically, as scientific knowledge and technology advance.
AOKid writes:
If you think this is illusionary, then why will you eventually die? All organisms die. All the chemicals are there. If you want to talk about a "primordial soup" of organic chemicals, then how about the "soup" of chemicals still present when an organism dies. All the proteins are present for life. All the amino acids are present for life. All the catalysts are present for life. All the DNA and RNA is present for life. All the cell walls are present for life. What better organic soup could you want other than a dead organism.
Why does your car or computer eventually die? All the parts are still there? Isn't it possible to still fix these things? All that is needed is to identify and replace the nonworking part(s). You or I(assuming you are not a mechanic/IT specialist) could not fix these things, but given enough time and resources, an expert could. Science continually makes advances in extending life. Research into telomeres may find a way to prevent cellular death.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 08-25-2008 4:15 PM AlphaOmegakid has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-12-2008 9:36 AM dokukaeru has replied

  
dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4615 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 110 of 132 (479558)
08-28-2008 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by AlphaOmegakid
08-25-2008 4:15 PM


Re: Resurrection of topic due to interest
AOKid writes:
educated scientific abiogenesist
Could you provide a definition?
AOKid writes:
Only religious ideas would lead to the conclusion from the evidence that there is no distint boundary.
Is the google scholar search your evidence?
Have people been pronounced dead and then brought back to life?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 08-25-2008 4:15 PM AlphaOmegakid has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-12-2008 10:03 AM dokukaeru has replied

  
dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4615 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 111 of 132 (479559)
08-28-2008 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by AlphaOmegakid
08-25-2008 4:15 PM


Re: Resurrection of topic due to interest
Is a virus alive or dead AOKid?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 08-25-2008 4:15 PM AlphaOmegakid has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-12-2008 10:06 AM dokukaeru has replied

  
dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4615 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 112 of 132 (479960)
08-31-2008 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by AlphaOmegakid
08-25-2008 4:57 PM


You are silent AOKid?
So you do not want to discuss this further?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 08-25-2008 4:57 PM AlphaOmegakid has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-12-2008 10:10 AM dokukaeru has not replied

  
dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4615 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 119 of 132 (481780)
09-12-2008 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by AlphaOmegakid
09-12-2008 9:36 AM


Re: Resurrection of topic due to interest
AOKid writes:
Cellular death is organism death doku.
This is not true. Blood cells have an average life of 4 months. You are saying that when one of my blood cells dies, I die. Science has had problems trying to define death because new technologies have extended life past previous definitions. New definitions rely on the cessation of brain activity and function. What is to stop science from keeping a brain alive indefinitely?
Huh? Comuters die? Cars die? What branch of science do you come from? The literary sciences....I mean arts. Death in the way you used it is a metaphor. Computers aren't alive and neither are cars. I hate to break that to you. Therefore, your whole logical anaology breaks down. Sorry.
The analogy still holds. The machine's functions stop. The cell's functions stop.
I think science is neutral on this subject.
How is science neutral on this?
Wiki on Death writes:
The chief concern of medical science has been to postpone and avert death.
So you must believe in immortality? Infinitely long telomeres. That's an interesting mythological concept.
Actually yes I do. there is scienctific evidence for it. Here are 2 examples:
1. The hydra is a radially symetrical organism ranging in size from 1mm-20mm. Hydras do not age. They are biologically immortal.
2. Did you know that some cultivars of grapes are clones that have existed for thousands of years? Did you know every Granny Smith apple comes from a single chance plant that was grown in 1868 in Austailia by Maria Ann Smith? You cannot grow a Granny Smith or any other variety of apple from seed. Wouldn't you agree that is immortality?
Infinitely long telomeres.
The telomeres do not have to be infinitely long, just infinitely extended.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-12-2008 9:36 AM AlphaOmegakid has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-14-2008 6:20 PM dokukaeru has replied

  
dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4615 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 120 of 132 (481783)
09-12-2008 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by AlphaOmegakid
09-12-2008 10:06 AM


Re: Resurrection of topic due to interest
AOKid writes:
A virus is unequivocally dead outside a host cell.
Then explain to me how newly found Sputnik virus affects the mamavirus outside of a host cell?
By your definition of life, certain bacteria such as Chlamydia are not life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-12-2008 10:06 AM AlphaOmegakid has not replied

  
dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4615 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 121 of 132 (481784)
09-12-2008 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by AlphaOmegakid
09-12-2008 10:03 AM


Re: Resurrection of topic due to interest
AOKid writes:
A regious zealot who ignores scientific evidence about life and pursues mythological stories about the origin of life coming from the evolutionary emergence of chemicals.
This is your own made up definition. You cannot reference one, correct?
AOKid writes:
Yes, and I think the last time I checked 100% of scientists in the world would still predict that those who have been brought "back to life" will still die eventually.
That is not the point. The point is they have crossed the boundry you say cannot be crossed.
AOKid writes:
Except for the one who has power (that's a physics term) over life and death (those are biological terms)....Jesus Christ who rose from the dead and lives today. I put the parenthetical statements in because this is a science forum.
You do realize the ressurection myth was around well before Christians commandeered it?
wiki writes:
Centuries before the time of Jesus Christ the nations annually celebrated the death and resurrection of Osiris, Tammuz, Attis, Mithra, and other gods" [1]. A cyclic dying-and-rising god motif was prevalent throughout ancient Mesopotamian and classical literature and practice (eg in Syrian and Greek worship of Adonis; Egyptian worship of Osiris; the Babylonian story of Tammuz; rural religious belief in the Corn King).
Specifically, some of language concerning resurrection in the Hebrew Bible appears to have origins in Canaanite belief as demonstrated by the Baal cycle found at Ugarit in Northern Syria. Ba'al-Hadad's battle against Mot seems to be the origin of the some of the resurrection imagery found in Hosea, Isaiah and Daniel. This influence survives into the New Testament and even Rabbinic literature, with agricultural imagery regarding resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15:36-37 and in John 12:24 reflecting the agricultural images of the Ba'al myth. [1]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-12-2008 10:03 AM AlphaOmegakid has not replied

  
dokukaeru
Member (Idle past 4615 days)
Posts: 129
From: ohio
Joined: 06-27-2008


Message 129 of 132 (486762)
10-24-2008 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by AlphaOmegakid
09-14-2008 6:20 PM


Curious if you have any more input
Have you thought any more about Message 119 or Message 120 or anyones post after those?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-14-2008 6:20 PM AlphaOmegakid has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024