Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,912 Year: 4,169/9,624 Month: 1,040/974 Week: 367/286 Day: 10/13 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   update: freedom found, natural selection theory pushed aside
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 285 of 318 (481546)
09-11-2008 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by bluescat48
09-11-2008 2:53 PM


Re: Instants Not Decisions
Look in the link in post 1, use the references in that paper.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by bluescat48, posted 09-11-2008 2:53 PM bluescat48 has not replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 287 of 318 (481558)
09-11-2008 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Straggler
09-11-2008 3:43 PM


Re: Instants Not Decisions
There seems to be little difference between what you write now, and your philosophical meanderings in th evolution of consciousness thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Straggler, posted 09-11-2008 3:43 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by Straggler, posted 09-11-2008 4:14 PM Syamsu has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 289 of 318 (481562)
09-11-2008 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Straggler
09-11-2008 4:14 PM


Re: Instants Not Decisions
You can just enter it in your meandering thread about the evolution of consciousness which presents your actual knowledge of freedom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Straggler, posted 09-11-2008 4:14 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by Straggler, posted 09-11-2008 4:48 PM Syamsu has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 291 of 318 (481565)
09-11-2008 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Straggler
09-11-2008 4:48 PM


Re: Instants Not Decisions
Its incomprehensible to me. Alternatives in the future I understand well enough since I use that logic all the time in daily life in making decisions.
Hyperincursive math is more difficult, but Dubois provides examples and tries to use basic language in explaining it. So I can grasp the basic principles of it, which also make sense, because they are much consistent with creationism.
At first I set out to analyze the structure in common knowledge about freedom. No philosophical meandering like you engage in, but the practical knowledge I use when buying groceries or anything.
So that is why I end up with strong logic, logic that is practically useful. And once the logic is accepted, it follows that everything is decided, just as like materialists think everything is caused. Including toothbrushes, which are either in a state of alternatives prior to entering the bathroom, or their state is decided of themselves. I prefer the last.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Straggler, posted 09-11-2008 4:48 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by Straggler, posted 09-11-2008 5:59 PM Syamsu has replied
 Message 294 by likemindedchocolatebar, posted 09-11-2008 10:37 PM Syamsu has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 293 of 318 (481590)
09-11-2008 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Straggler
09-11-2008 5:59 PM


Re: Instants Not Decisions
This is not parody anymore, you have to refer to instants as true according to common knowledge now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by Straggler, posted 09-11-2008 5:59 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 297 by Straggler, posted 09-12-2008 9:05 AM Syamsu has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 296 of 318 (481688)
09-12-2008 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by likemindedchocolatebar
09-11-2008 10:37 PM


Re: Instants Not Decisions
No for example, at first I was convinced that decisions had a location, and at this location is nothing. Then I found a paper saying decisions come from nothing and are nowhere. I then adopted the finding of the paper as best I can. Apparently we cant have decisions be predertimined by position either, so that must also be zero.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by likemindedchocolatebar, posted 09-11-2008 10:37 PM likemindedchocolatebar has not replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 300 of 318 (481727)
09-12-2008 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 297 by Straggler
09-12-2008 9:05 AM


Re: Instants Not Decisions
Well I do experience instants yes. But I think you are not true to the evidence of the experience, and the practical use of the knowledge of instants. For example, according to common knowledge one can decide in an instant, and I can experience it. But you say instants exclude decisions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by Straggler, posted 09-12-2008 9:05 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by Straggler, posted 09-12-2008 10:08 AM Syamsu has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 302 of 318 (481743)
09-12-2008 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by Straggler
09-12-2008 10:08 AM


Re: Instants Not Decisions
But as before, your logic is not consistent with common knowledge about instants. You should first formalize the common knowledge, then try to make it fit. It is also not within my experience that decisions are borne of instants, so I have no evidence for it. Deciding alternatives that are in the future is the knowledge we use. We do not seem to use illusionary decisions borne of instances at al in common knowledge. But I like your idea of timelines, maybe you are getting somewhere.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Straggler, posted 09-12-2008 10:08 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by Straggler, posted 09-12-2008 11:31 AM Syamsu has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 304 of 318 (481751)
09-12-2008 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 303 by Straggler
09-12-2008 11:31 AM


Re: Instants Not Decisions
You should use the science theory subservient to the evidence of direct experience, but you are doing the reverse. You are also making common knowledge subservient to your theory, instead of the reverse.
In any case, if you would present an analysis of the logic of instants, as it is used in common knowledge, formalize it, derive general principles, clean it up to essential parts, then Im sure you would get something worthwile.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by Straggler, posted 09-12-2008 11:31 AM Straggler has not replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 308 of 318 (481766)
09-12-2008 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 307 by Straggler
09-12-2008 12:50 PM


Re: Theory in science
You are still not getting it. You must use the actual phrases in common knowledge, the structure of them. So you should describe what a person might have said when forgetting their carkeys. Then analyze the logical structure of what is said.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by Straggler, posted 09-12-2008 12:50 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by Straggler, posted 09-12-2008 1:29 PM Syamsu has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 311 of 318 (481773)
09-12-2008 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 310 by Straggler
09-12-2008 1:29 PM


Re: Theory in science
That phrase seems to have no relationship to instants whatsoever.
Eddington who somebody else referenced also argued from experience. And then he said that the future is where randomness is, while the past is only one way. So you see the way I evidence and construct knowledge is an established practice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by Straggler, posted 09-12-2008 1:29 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by Straggler, posted 09-12-2008 2:14 PM Syamsu has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 313 of 318 (481786)
09-12-2008 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 312 by Straggler
09-12-2008 2:14 PM


Re: Theory in science
I thought you didnt have a decisionmaking capacity, that it was an illusional effect of instants. That is exactly what many scientists say that free will is an illusion, for which there is no evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by Straggler, posted 09-12-2008 2:14 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 316 by Straggler, posted 09-12-2008 6:19 PM Syamsu has not replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 315 of 318 (481799)
09-12-2008 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 314 by ramoss
09-12-2008 3:48 PM


Re: Theory in science
And the paper referenced in the original posting substantiates that evolution occurs through reasoned and informed decisions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 314 by ramoss, posted 09-12-2008 3:48 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by Straggler, posted 09-12-2008 6:21 PM Syamsu has replied

  
Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 318 of 318 (481854)
09-13-2008 6:01 AM
Reply to: Message 317 by Straggler
09-12-2008 6:21 PM


Re: Theory in science
I admit descent with modification yes. But as explained, since everything is by decision, just as in previous science everything was by causes, everybody in science will become a creationist.
And as explained, admitting descent with modification, still means I believe the classes of organisms were created at or near the start of the universe. The classes were reasonably in the future at that point, and the future is real, it has an actual informationcontent. When it becomes likely that is the origin, and that is always a decision.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Straggler, posted 09-12-2008 6:21 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024