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Syamsu  Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days) Posts: 1914 From: amsterdam Joined: |
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Author | Topic: update: freedom found, natural selection theory pushed aside | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Syamsu  Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days) Posts: 1914 From: amsterdam Joined: |
But I am an advocate of creationism, and anticipation theory is just a tool for that. You just have to drop your hostility towards theories about freedom as a whole, for many reasons, the most important being that it is just not safe to be like that. You don't know how important knowledge about freedom is for people, but it could be very important. So take care.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
message 69 please
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
But I am an advocate of creationism, and anticipation theory is just a tool for that. Are you saying that you do not actually care whether anticipation theory can be shown to be true or false? That you will advocate it anyway because it supports your wider beliefs?
You just have to drop your hostility towards theories about freedom as a whole, for many reasons, the most important being that it is just not safe to be like that. Are you saying that it is unsafe to oppose theories that are false?Surely it is more dangerous to prescribe to false theories than to oppose them? If the theory is demonstrably wrong then it should expect to be treated with contempt. If the theory is demonstrably wrong then it's advocates should expect to be either educated or treated with disdain. It seems obvious to me that anticipation theory as you have described it is demonstrably false. You have been completely unable to refute any of the problems that have been pointed out to you and utterly unwilling to answer any of the questions posed. You don't know how important knowledge about freedom is for people, but it could be very important It could be very important. Or it could be complete rubbish that is worthy of no further consideration. How do you know it has any value at all? How will we know unless we analyse and ultimately scientifically test the theory?
So take care I can only conclude from your complete refusal to even contemplate the idea of scientifically testing anticipation theory, on simple physical systems, that you have so little practical faith in it's ability to pass such tests that you would rather remain ignorant of such results on the basis that an untested theory that potentially supports your irrational world view is better than definite results that in all likelihood would force you to question the legitimacy of your irrational world view. You are using anticipation theory in a flawed attempt to prop up your irrational beliefs and don't want to even consider the prospect of any hard evidence that might require those beliefs to be questioned or challenged. That pretty much sums up the entire ID/creationist position. Edited by Straggler, : No reason given. Edited by Straggler, : No reason given. Edited by Straggler, : No reason given. Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.
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Syamsu  Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days) Posts: 1914 From: amsterdam Joined: |
If freedom is correct then you are making choices, and at the end of a choice there is a judgement. Again I fail to comprehend your opposition to what is known by direct experience, common knowledge, religion, science, courts of law etc. Your hostility is what, from some ideal for perfect knowledge. No it isnt based on that, it is unexplainable, incomprehensible.
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Syamsu  Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days) Posts: 1914 From: amsterdam Joined: |
Meaning the decision is instantaneous over the distance, but the transfer of energy limited by the speed of light. The peculiar perihilion of mercury is described by general relativity before. As mentioned before, im unsure whether it is predicted in terms of probability, which is translated to freedom in anticipation theory, or that anticipation sets the same limit as described by general relativity.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
If freedom is correct then you are making choices, and at the end of a choice there is a judgement. I, and you, are indeed making choices and judgements. However your exptrapolation of this ability to choose and judge to planets, rocks, electrons, tables, chairs, telephones, cardboard boxes and all other inanimate objects despite all of the predictive evidence to the contrary not only defies all scientifc understanding it also defies the same common sense "knowledge" on which you seem to be basing your flawed argument.
Again I fail to comprehend your opposition to what is known by direct experience, common knowledge, religion, science, courts of law etc. Is it really the case that direct human experience, common knowledge, religion, science and law all point to the free expression of cardboard boxes????????
Your hostility is what, from some ideal for perfect knowledge Any "hostility" is borne of the frustration at your ongoing determination to present blatantly stupid and deeply flawed arguments whilst continually maintaining that evertyone who does not agree with your nonsensical view is somehow biased against a perfectly reasonable theory.
No it isnt based on that, it is unexplainable, incomprehensible. There is nothing here that is incomprehensible or unexplaianable. There is only a theory that you do not wish to be comprehended, explained or tested for fear that it will be shown to be the obvious nonsense that it quite evidently is.
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Syamsu  Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days) Posts: 1914 From: amsterdam Joined: |
Tell me, if it was forbidden to you by your professor to make theory about desire, emotions, love, beauty etc. because it violates the rule that science may not speak about what ought and ought not. Then if you had cleaned up your objective view this way from subjective opinion, would you then still be hostile to knowledge about freedom.
If I said your life has less value then a particular rock, then ok maybe I should go to jail, or to a psychiatric institution, fair enough, but i wont have it to be accused of being unscientific for that. I sense you are using science to prop up your valueing of human beings. It explains your reference to desire, and your hostility. The evidence for freedom being plentiful, that cant be the reason. Edited by Syamsu, : No reason given.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Syamsu,
You said:
syamsu writes: It seems to me the instantaneous propagation requires decisions But when I ask what an "instantaneous propagation" is, you said:
syamsu writes: Meaning the decision is instantaneous over the distance, but the transfer of energy limited by the speed of light That's circular reasoning. You have to assume your conclusion in order to accept your premises. Of course "instantaneous propagation" requires decisions in your view, you have defined it as requiring decisions. So, what you need to demonstrate is whether the orbit of Mercury displays "instantaneous propagation". Is this testable?
The peculiar perihilion of mercury is described by general relativity before. Exactly, it follows known laws of physics, it "appears" to be constrained by them, it doesn't do anything but obey those laws. How can you possibly claim decisions are being made that infer freedom when exactly the opposite of freedom is evident? Mark There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2727 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, Syamsu.
Syamsu writes: Tell me, if it was forbidden to you by your professor to make theory about desire, emotions, love, beauty etc. because it violates the rule that science may not speak about what ought and ought not. Can we just assume, for the time being, that there is no grand scientific conspiracy against everything that you, personally, hold dear in the world? Please? None of your opponents is assuming that your and Edwina's entire intent with this anticipation theory is just to ruin our world view, so why can't you at least extend the same courtesy to us?
Syamsu writes: I sense you are using science to prop up your valueing of human beings. Are you saying that scientific theories give Mankind a higher status in the universe than your "tool for creationism" does? Doesn't that also put anticipation theory at odds with creationism somehow? -Bluejay Darwin loves you.
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Syamsu  Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days) Posts: 1914 From: amsterdam Joined: |
It logically follows that motion is useless as a measure of time for instantaneous action ove a distance, leaving decision which logically works.
As I said twice before, it may be so that a probalistic aspect of GR is translated into freedom of the sysem in anticipation theory.
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Syamsu  Suspended Member (Idle past 5620 days) Posts: 1914 From: amsterdam Joined: |
In creationism there is a division between the material and the spiritual, the objective and the subjective, so there is basically no problem. But you all seem very much to be fudging the objective with the subjective, that love and such is in a human brain, that love is partially material in the least, but may contain some unknown elements. That could ofcourse explain your hostility to knowledge about freedom, because freedom says you cant know love except freely, subjectively.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
.
Edited by mark24, : No reason given. There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5225 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Syamsu,
I asked;
mark writes: So, what you need to demonstrate is whether the orbit of Mercury displays "instantaneous propagation". Is this testable? You replied:
It logically follows that motion is useless as a measure of time for instantaneous action ove a distance, leaving decision which logically works. Motion isn't a measure of time for instantaneous action anyway, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Please answer the question. Marf There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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dokukaeru Member (Idle past 4645 days) Posts: 129 From: ohio Joined: |
syamsu writes: I am not the expert on knowledge about freedom, you can argue it yourself if it could have turned out another way, you don't need me for that. Nice hand waving. So your position is that you simultaneously know more than everyone here and not enough of this anticipation theory to argue your point? I will ask the question again:So tell me syamsu, did hominids "choose" to lose a functioning gene that creates a protein that can make vitamin c? If so, why did they, it, their atoms or whatever you are claiming to have freedom do so? It is much more likely that hominids lost this functioning gene due to their diet high in vegetable matter. We really could use that ability to produce vitamin c now. If they looked into the future wouldn't thay have seen this comming? There had to be the option to have a set of functioning vitamin c producing genes because other mammals have it and we have almost all except one which is now pseudogene. (In the most unhostile way)Please could you answer my question, and the questions of others?
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dokukaeru Member (Idle past 4645 days) Posts: 129 From: ohio Joined: |
Syamsu writes: In creationism there is a division between the material and the spiritual, the objective and the subjective, so there is basically no problem. This is the opposite of reality.
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