Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,906 Year: 4,163/9,624 Month: 1,034/974 Week: 361/286 Day: 4/13 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Did Homo Erectus build the Tower of Babel?
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2727 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 11 of 51 (479307)
08-26-2008 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Beretta
08-26-2008 10:01 AM


Re: Homo erectus
Hi, Beretta.
Beretta writes:
bluegenes writes:
From an "evolutionist" point of view, we see Wise attempting to squeeze hundreds of thousands of years of our evolutionary history, from erectus to sapiens, into a few hundred years
It doesn't appear to me that Wise is attempting anything on the subject of hominids. He says quite clearly that Homo erectus skeletons are virtually indistinguishable from modern humans meaning that they are our human ancestors, not our apeman evolutionary relatives.
If humans scattered from a central postion and became isolated populations, they would have had subsets of the original genetic variation and thus would have had anatomical differences though they would have been entirely human nonetheless.
The point of this argument was that current science places Homo erectus around 1 and 2 million years ago, and Kurt Wise is trying to fit the same process into the 5-6000?-year period since Eden. Actually, it would have to be a much shorter period, because the "Homo erectus form," as Wise puts it, is clearly no longer extant, which means that it went extinct some time ago, probably even before Christ. That would require the evolution of a fully modern human into an ape-faced, small-brained Homo erectus within just a few thousand years.
And, just to clarify, here is what Wise is proposing that Adam's and Eve's and Noah's skulls looked like:
And here is what we look like today:
In short, Noah had a muzzle (prognathism), huge jaw muscles, no nose to speak of and a heavy brow ridge. In fact, he looked suspiciously like a short-faced chimpanzee with a big brain and little canines:
Kurt Wise is proposing that we evolved from something that looks as much like a chimpanzee as it does a human.

-Bluejay
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Beretta, posted 08-26-2008 10:01 AM Beretta has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 08-26-2008 1:57 PM Blue Jay has replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2727 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 30 of 51 (479384)
08-26-2008 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by AlphaOmegakid
08-26-2008 1:57 PM


Re: Homo erectus
Hi, AOkid.
AlphaOmegakid writes:
A person as wise and educated as you should know better than to make a statement like this.
Dude, it wasn't meant to be an in-depth, scientific analysis: it was just a perspective. Perhaps it was a little careless, but you didn't do much better yourself:
AlphaOmegakid writes:
Chimpanzees have a brain size of 400 cc's avg. Homo erectus has a brain size of 1000cc's average. That is 250% increase in brain capacity in roughly 1-1.5MY in evolutionary time.
Fine. Except that, strangely enough, the chimpanzee wasn't around until after Homo erectus, so there is no evidence of a 250% brain-mass increase. What does that do to your estimates (don't bother answering that: it's rhetorical. I can do the math myself).
Also note: why is it such a big deal for the erectus brain to have enlarged so much relative to ours in the same amount of time? You realize that, if just one additional round of cell division occurs in the brain early on, you can double the brain mass, yeah? That could probably be accomplished by a single mutation. That's a 100% increase in a single generation.
-----
Think of this: even the brainiest Homo erectus had only about 75% of the brain mass of the average Homo sapiens, yet, as far as I can ascertain, H. erectus was not significantly smaller than H. sapiens overall. Where we have a 1:50 ratio of brain to body (mass), the biggest-brained H. erectus has only a 1:67 or 1:70 ratio (most have 1:75 or 1:80). Compare to chimpanzee at 1:125.
Note: this is all my own math, and it was done based on numbers found in random papers from Nature and the H. sapiens ratio came from Wikipedia.
Do you believe that Homo erectus had the brain power to design and build the Tower of Babel without God's help (surely you believe that God didn't help them)?
I personally do not. However, this is based more on archaeological evidence and dating techniques that place Homo erectus in sediments wherein only the simplest types of tools are ever found, than it is on a rigorous investigation of neurological capacity. You, no doubt, do not accept this type of co-occurence evidence as meaningful.

-Bluejay
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 08-26-2008 1:57 PM AlphaOmegakid has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 08-28-2008 12:01 PM Blue Jay has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024