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Author Topic:   Are Uranium Halos the best evidence of (a) an old earth AND (b) constant physics?
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 11 of 142 (478579)
08-18-2008 5:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
08-16-2008 6:30 PM


Young Earth !!!!!!!
The stock YEcreationist response is that the decay rates changed, and thus all you are seeing is the result of fast decay rather than long time.
Makes sense if you take genesis literally you could have 3,000 to 4,000 years of accelerated decay. The sun became a light on day 1 according to some creationists 13,000 years ago. It was not a light unto the earth according to genesis for those first 3 creationists days (3,000 years) thus the sun just a star was likely like a torch in the sky could of been producing excessive amounts of gamma radiation, a much greater magnetic field, causing an acceleration of decay as part of the creation of the earth and the atmosphere until day 4 when the sun was made a light unto the earth.
It was not until day 4 that the sun according to some creationists the sun was made a light unto the earth the present slower decay rates, and the ever weakening magnetic fields of the earth.
P.S. Uniformitists assume the sun has been a star more than 13,000 years but if the young earth creationists are right and the sun became a star approximately 13,000 years ago on creation day 1 and was not a light unto the earth until day 4 you have 3,000 to 4,000 years of accelerated decay possible from their point of view happening on the earth explaining the appearance of age but not the age of the earth.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Remedial treatment of nucleur wastes are looking to gamma radiation, proton acceleration, higher magnetic fields, photons " not neutrons or alpha radiation" to accelerate uranium decay rates, to treat nuke wastes, etc...
nukwastpats
In a few major bursts, the sun produces gamma rays with energies up to one million electron volts. The interaction of high-energy electrons, protons, and nuclei of the sun, emit the rays.
SMGAELS | Play to Gain
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
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Replies to this message:
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 14 of 142 (478597)
08-18-2008 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by RAZD
08-18-2008 7:29 AM


Re: Young Earth !!!!!!! - NOT THE TOPIC
It is about Uranium halos, and why Uranium halos are (a) evidence that there has been no change to the rate of decay for hundreds of millions of years and (b) that the earth is at least several hundred million years old.
That I agree this is the uniformitists belief but some creationists believe accelerated decay answers the appearance of age is not evidence of an old earth.
If the decay rates had changed we would not have Uranium halos, because the energy of the alpha particles would change WITH the change in decay rate, and the resulting rings would NOT be at the correct diameter, if they weren't smeared to much to see.
Where is your evidence that accelerated decay would change the energy of the alpha particle affecting ring diameter, etc...?

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 18 of 142 (478639)
08-18-2008 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Coragyps
08-18-2008 7:43 PM


Re: Young Earth !!!!!!! - NOT THE TOPIC
Your graft is about present decay rates however is not the halos about the ionizing of the rock as the alpha particle leaves the nucleus.
How do you explain squashed Polonium-210 radiohalos and no evidence of the parent element? Orphan?
Enjoy,
JF
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Radiohalos are rings of color formed around microscopic bits of radioactive minerals in rock crystals. They are fossil evidence of radioactive decay.21 “Squashed” Polonium-210 radiohalos indicate that Jurassic, Triassic, and Eocene formations in the Colorado plateau were deposited within months of one another, not hundreds of millions of years apart as required by the conventional time scale.22 “Orphan” Polonium-218 radiohalos, having no evidence of their mother elements, imply accelerated nuclear decay and very rapid formation of associated minerals.23,24
Evidence for a Young World | Answers in Genesis
404 Not Found
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 21 of 142 (478677)
08-19-2008 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by peaceharris
08-19-2008 12:45 AM


Re: Young Earth !!!!!!! - NOT THE TOPIC
There are halos with 238U/206Pb ratios as low as 0.001, as high as 27300. If a creationist has the liberty to speculate accelerated decay when explaining the low ratio of 0.001, an evolutionist also has the liberty to speculate ”decelerated decay’ to explain the high ratio of 27300.
Sounds like Gentry in your article is talking about coal not zircons in rock? Leaching (biblical flood likely) explains the high ratio in coal. Snelling in respect to orphans was about whats found in zircons in rocks. Leaning Gentry was just showing halo's exists too in coal.
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Even though the biological fossil record has been extensively documented, the rather abundant fossil record of radiohalos that exists in the coalified wood from the Colorado Plateau has remained virtually undeciphered. Jedwab (1) and Breger (2) have determined some important characteristics of such halos; in fact, earlier (1, 2) as well as present investigations on these samples (3) agree that: (i) the microscopic-size radiocenters responsible for halos (Fig. 1a) in coalified wood are actually secondary sites that preferentially accumulated -radioactivity during an earlier period of earth history when uranium-bearing solutions infiltrated the logs after they had been uprooted;
Radiohalos in Coalified Wood: New Evidence Relating to the Time of Uranium Introduction and Coalification
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 22 of 142 (478679)
08-19-2008 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Joe Meert
08-19-2008 9:38 AM


Re: Young Earth !!!!!!! - NOT THE TOPIC
So, what decay rate does Gentry use for his Po-halos? How did he choose that number and how much does it differ from 'evolutionary science' estimates?
The link Peaceharris gave in respect to Genty makes it sound like Gentry is a creationists and does not share uniformitists beliefs that uniformitists share in respect to the age of the earth.
P.S. Maybe Peaceharris knows the "number" your looking for and if Gentry uses a "number" that differ's from evolutionarism's?
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 28 of 142 (478706)
08-19-2008 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by RAZD
08-19-2008 7:37 PM


Re: Not Polonium Niether ... Uranium, and the age shown by Uranium halos etc ...
Razd said: That is the big question here, and what I can see so far is that the decay rates are tied to the energy the alpha particle ends up with when it tunnels through the Coulomb wall\barrier, so that if one changes the other must also change.
The Alpha particle sometimes its said leaves the radioactive nuclei in an excited state.
The excess energy your talking about is removed by the emission of a gamma ray from the alpha particle!
Razd said: If the decay rates had changed we would not have Uranium halos, because the energy of the alpha particles would change WITH the change in decay rate, and the resulting rings would NOT be at the correct diameter, if they weren't smeared to much to see.
Actually given excess energy from the alpha particle is released by a gamma ray.
Interestingly its the lack of smearing that suggests polonium halo's are caused from primordial polonium instead of radon gas being the parent of polonium halo's.
Its all right back to the lack of a parent. Orphan? and alpha exicitations energy instead being released by the alpha particle itself releasing a gamma ray?
If the earth was an old one you should be seeing halo smearing which would be the result if polonium halos parent was not primordial polonium but mobile radon gas.
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Alpha particles are emitted by radioactive nuclei such as uranium or radium in a process known as alpha decay. This sometimes leaves the nucleus in an excited state, with the emission of a gamma ray removing the excess energy.
Alpha particle - Wikipedia
Bottomline: radon gas will not accummulate in a single spot - and without high concentration of Po-218 in a single spot, you don't get halos (the discoloration will only happen by billions of Po-218 decades concentrated in a single spot - without high concentration, it will be a undetectable smear)
Study Pages
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 31 of 142 (478709)
08-19-2008 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by RAZD
08-19-2008 9:47 PM


Gamma rays!
Were back to gamma rays accelerated decay and that its a gamma ray thats the excess energy removed (wikepedia did not say the alpha particles energy was increased when an occasional nucleus was excited only that the excess energy causing the excitation was removed as a gamma ray)!!!!!!!
Basically even with near steady state present decay you have an occasional alpha leaving the nucleus excited and this alpha upon its expulsion from the nucleus there exists excess energy thats causing this excitation that is released as a gamma ray.
Uranium halos too show evidence of accelerated decay or from your point of view uniformitarian decay.
Its not evidence of an old earth because one can spin it to be evidence of accelerated decay when you include the entire decay chain.
P.S. Its also interesting that gamma rays might well be how nucleur wastes will reduce toxic radiation thru accelerated decay using gamma rays to help the alpha particle to get excited and induce quantum tunnelling from the inside out.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Alpha particles are emitted by radioactive nuclei such as uranium or radium in a process known as alpha decay. This sometimes leaves the nucleus in an excited state, with the emission of a gamma ray removing the excess energy.
Alpha particle - Wikipedia
Remedial treatment of nucleur wastes are looking to gamma radiation, proton acceleration, higher magnetic fields, photons " not neutrons or alpha radiation" to accelerate uranium decay rates, to treat nuke wastes, etc...
nukwastpats
In a few major bursts, the sun produces gamma rays with energies up to one million electron volts. The interaction of high-energy electrons, protons, and nuclei of the sun, emit the rays.
SMGAELS | Play to Gain
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