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Author Topic:   Michael Savage and Autism
subbie
Member (Idle past 1276 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 16 of 33 (476575)
07-24-2008 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Buzsaw
07-24-2008 8:58 PM


If he believes in homeopathy, he demonstrates an inability to understand the difference between science and snake oil.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Buzsaw, posted 07-24-2008 8:58 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Buzsaw, posted 07-24-2008 9:48 PM subbie has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 33 (476576)
07-24-2008 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by subbie
07-24-2008 9:12 PM


Subbie, homeopathy is just one of the areas of studies, experience and knowledge which Savage has engaged in.
I'm not into homeopathy perse but likely there are some benefits derived from some aspects of it if one understands it and is knowledgeable as to proper application of it. As with prescription drugs, missaplication = snake oil, except that the side effects of prescription drugs are usually far more risky.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by subbie, posted 07-24-2008 9:12 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1276 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 18 of 33 (476577)
07-24-2008 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Buzsaw
07-24-2008 9:48 PM


quote:
I'm not into homeopathy perse but likely there are some benefits derived from some aspects of it if one understands it and is knowledgeable as to proper application of it.
If you can find a single valid study (double blind, etc.) finding any benefits to homeopathy, I'll be stunned. As far as I've ever heard, the only "benefit" is a lighter wallet.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Buzsaw, posted 07-24-2008 9:48 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Jazzns, posted 07-24-2008 11:20 PM subbie has not replied
 Message 22 by Granny Magda, posted 07-25-2008 9:20 AM subbie has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3933 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 19 of 33 (476583)
07-24-2008 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by subbie
07-24-2008 9:52 PM


If you can find a single valid study (double blind, etc.) finding any benefits to homeopathy, I'll be stunned. As far as I've ever heard, the only "benefit" is a lighter wallet.
Moreover, it speaks to Michael Savage's grasp on reality.
Anyone who can write books on the delusion that is homeopathy is living in a different world if you know what I mean.
How can this guy say anything about autism when his opinions on medical treatment haven't even caught up to the 20th century let alone the 21st?

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 33 (476585)
07-24-2008 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by LudoRephaim
07-24-2008 6:36 PM


Re: Asbergers
If he where diagnosed with Aspergers or some other form of autism, he could possibly get some legal protection from that kind of harassment. But then again i dont know for sure nor do i know the inner workings of the military.
Unfortunately, while in the military, you can't sue them per contractual agreement. Somebody else can sue on your behalf, however. You can also file grievances, but going up against some Brass may get yourself in a sling.
I have some similarities to Asperger's syndrome even though i am diagnosed PDD-NOS (Not otherwise Specified). With Autism you can have problems with social skills (I have two books at home for Autistic people to do well in social envoronments). If he has some type of Autism, then such social problems combined with military life could cause some issues to arise.
That is precisely what is going on with him. While he is sociable, he lacks the same kind of common sense or sense of humor that most every one else would adapt to. But he is incredibly intelligent and very knowledgeable. He is respectful and meticulous, but he lacks social graces. He also seems largely incapable of thinking outside of the box. He is good at remembering the rules and regulations, but can't seem to grasp why such rules and regulations were instituted in the first place. So he tends to see things in black and white as a result. He therefore can never be in a position of leadership, at least not militarily.
But like I said, he is content to stay at his current rank and to continue doing what he does. It suits him because he is a creature of habit, which no doubt his condition has something to do with it. I say they should let him stay in.

“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

This message is a reply to:
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Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 21 of 33 (476606)
07-25-2008 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by LudoRephaim
07-23-2008 11:45 AM


I worked for 4 years for a charity that supported young adults with ASD and the general understanding of the disorder from the public is pretty poor in the uk (although to be fair that was in the late 90s).
What I found was that we all have ASD traits at some level: the big problem ocurs with social learning. Most people (ironically) have a blind spot when trying to communicate with an autistic individual, often assuming that the words and phrases they use are universally understood (in implication, context etc).
I was always careful of saying questions like "Would you do this, please?" as this would sometimes get interpreted as "Wood, you do this please". One is a question and one is an instruction to somebody called Wood.
This leaves some autistic people appaer to 'get it' sometimes but not other times and in my experience this leads people to conclude that the autistic individual is being contrary or 'spoilt' as Savage implies.
Obviously this is not true. But I can see why he may say the things he does: he is simply not sufficiently knowledgable in this subject area to comment intelligently.
But then what can you expect from a know nothing know it all?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by LudoRephaim, posted 07-23-2008 11:45 AM LudoRephaim has replied

Replies to this message:
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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 22 of 33 (476607)
07-25-2008 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by subbie
07-24-2008 9:52 PM


f you can find a single valid study (double blind, etc.) finding any benefits to homeopathy, I'll be stunned. As far as I've ever heard, the only "benefit" is a lighter wallet.
Echo that, but there us another benefit to homoeopathy; idiots with nothing really wrong with them can go and waste their time and money with a homoeopathic quack instead of wasting the time of real doctors. The problem starts when those who really are ill do the same...
As for Savage, a belief in homoeopathy should bring up a warning flag. I would take anything this man said with a generous helping of salt.

Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Buzsaw, posted 07-25-2008 9:59 PM Granny Magda has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 33 (476710)
07-25-2008 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Granny Magda
07-25-2008 9:20 AM


Granny Magda writes:
........there us another benefit to homoeopathy; idiots with nothing really wrong with them can go and waste their time and money with a homoeopathic quack instead of wasting the time of real doctors. The problem starts when those who really are ill do the same...
As for Savage, a belief in homoeopathy should bring up a warning flag. I would take anything this man said with a generous helping of salt.
It appears that you and some others here do not understand the science of homeopathy or how homeopatic methodology works.
1. Homeopathic treatment is a very safe, cheap and effective means of treatment, often effecting relief in both acute and chronic ailments.
It has been effective when applied properly by trained practitioners in some chronic ailments which have been considered incurable by conventional medicine.
2. My hay fever pills which are the most effective that I've ever found are homeopathic. They are relatively cheap remedies which I found on my own in our local health food outlet.
3. Homeopathy works most effectively to strengthen and maintain a healthy immune system in the body holistically. It mimics the disease so as to stimulate the body's own immune system which in turn wards off the ailment. It is a simple scientific concept which makes logical sense as well.
4. Children are agreeable to it since the medicine is usually administered as a sugary pill. Perhaps that's one reason why some mistakenly regard it as quack medicine.
5. Homeopathic medicines are easy to administer. Homeopathic medicines are usually dispensed as sweet sugar pills, which are very easy to take. Due to this reason, children readily agree to take homeopathic remedies.
6. Homeopathy, by enhancing the whole body's immune system, effects a more healthy body in general so as to eliminate the need to depend upon the $$$ medical establishment and to avoid some of their dangerous and $$$ practice.
7. Being holistic, it does not require the need for multiple specialists in the various segments of health care.
I'm sure that if Michael Savage were to grace us with his expertise on this he would be able to cite much more as to why the science on this is valid.
Again, Michael Savage is a very intelligent fellow indeed. One can widen their knowledge and understanding by listening to him on a number of topics.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Granny Magda, posted 07-25-2008 9:20 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by DrJones*, posted 07-25-2008 10:55 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 25 by Rahvin, posted 07-25-2008 11:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 26 by Granny Magda, posted 07-26-2008 8:52 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2285
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 24 of 33 (476713)
07-25-2008 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Buzsaw
07-25-2008 9:59 PM


1. Homeopathic treatment is a very safe, cheap and effective means of treatment
Really Buz? Care to provide statistics on reported side effects and complications from the alternative "health" industry?

soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4039
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.2


Message 25 of 33 (476714)
07-25-2008 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Buzsaw
07-25-2008 9:59 PM


It appears that you and some others here do not understand the science of homeopathy or how homeopatic methodology works.
It appears that you don't understand the function of a placebo.
Homeopathy consists of diluting a medication tot he point where there is no longer a detectable amount of the active ingredient.
If such a thing worked, then every time you drink a glass of water you should also give you the effects of any and all substances ever dissolved in it.
1. Homeopathic treatment is a very safe, cheap and effective means of treatment, often effecting relief in both acute and chronic ailments.
It has been effective when applied properly by trained practitioners in some chronic ailments which have been considered incurable by conventional medicine.
Placebo. Demonstrate a reputable, peer-reviewed study in which homeopathic "medicine" was shown to have a significantly different effect than a sugar pill.
It's no wonder it's safe and cheap - it is in most cases nothing more than a sugar pill.
2. My hay fever pills which are the most effective that I've ever found are homeopathic. They are relatively cheap remedies which I found on my own in our local health food outlet.
Your personal experiences amount to nothing, Buz. The result could be placebo, changing weather conditions, or any number of other factors even up to your own subjective inaccuracy in being able to tell the difference.
3. Homeopathy works most effectively to strengthen and maintain a healthy immune system in the body holistically. It mimics the disease so as to stimulate the body's own immune system which in turn wards off the ailment. It is a simple scientific concept which makes logical sense as well.
Bullshit. It's diluted to the point where, if you had the volume of the Atlantic ocean in medication, the active ingredient would amount to a scant few drops. It's completely undetectable, and in most cases the chances of you actually ingesting even a single molecule of the "active ingredient" in a given pill are astronomically small.
4. Children are agreeable to it since the medicine is usually administered as a sugary pill. Perhaps that's one reason why some mistakenly regard it as quack medicine.
5. Homeopathic medicines are easy to administer. Homeopathic medicines are usually dispensed as sweet sugar pills, which are very easy to take. Due to this reason, children readily agree to take homeopathic remedies.
That's because they are sugar pills! Sugar pills, with no detectable active ingredient.
6. Homeopathy, by enhancing the whole body's immune system, effects a more healthy body in general so as to eliminate the need to depend upon the $$$ medical establishment and to avoid some of their dangerous and $$$ practice.
7. Being holistic, it does not require the need for multiple specialists in the various segments of health care.
That's right, the doctors who spend their lives learning and practicing tried-and-tested techniques of medicine under controlled and objectively verifiable circumstances are just out to get your money. The newagey college dropout hippy down the street selling snake oil obviously knows better than any silly doctor! Why pay more when they'll remove your appendix?! Save money and take a sugar pill for your appendicitis!
I'm sure that if Michael Savage were to grace us with his expertise on this he would be able to cite much more as to why the science on this is valid.
Again, Michael Savage is a very intelligent fellow indeed. One can widen their knowledge and understanding by listening to him on a number of topics.
Michael Savage is a radio talk-show host. In this case he is making comments regarding psychiatry, not nutrition. You notice how he says "in my opinion" whenever he says bullshit like this? That's because he knows that it's bullshit. You take what he says as gospel truth becasue he agrees with your other twisted and ignorant views and because he has a PhD. But Savage does not have a PhD in child psychology, and is completely unqualified to make the statements he made.
Anyone who believes in homeopathy is an idiot. You're taking sugar pills, Buz, nothing more. It is objectively demonstrable to be nothing more than lies and flim-flam. And frankly I wish Savage could have his PhD revoked if he genuinely supports homeopathy, which consists of nothing more than a bunch of quack snake-oil salesmen making scads of money off of gullible little twits like you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Buzsaw, posted 07-25-2008 9:59 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 26 of 33 (476732)
07-26-2008 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Buzsaw
07-25-2008 9:59 PM


Homoeopathy is Not the Topic, But...
It appears that you and some others here do not understand the science of homeopathy or how homeopatic methodology works.
Homoeopathy is not science and I understand it only too well as it happens. However it is off topic and we are buggering up Ludo's thread about autism, which is an interesting topic and deserves better.
With this in mind I have replied to your post in detail on the still open homoeopathy thread, here.
I would be very happy to discuss this with you further over on the appropriate thread, which might also be a better place to reply to Dr Jones and Rahvin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Buzsaw, posted 07-25-2008 9:59 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5105 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 27 of 33 (476945)
07-28-2008 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Larni
07-25-2008 9:18 AM


Wood
I was always careful of saying questions like "would you do this, please?" as this would sometimes get interpreted as "Wodd, you do this please."
I have had those moments (one of which i wont go into here, but always sends my mother into laughter).
But then what can you expect from a know nothing know it all?
To have his mouth overload his rear lol.I'm surprised somebody hasn't beaen the tar out of him since starting his radio show.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Larni, posted 07-25-2008 9:18 AM Larni has not replied

  
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4167 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 28 of 33 (477258)
07-31-2008 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by petrophysics1
07-24-2008 9:08 AM


Re: Savage Is Not A Savage
petrophysics writes:
Thanks for letting me know you and your wife have a financial interest in having children declared autistic.
I'll keep it in mind when I read your blind assertions.
Wow...what a completely shitty thing to say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by petrophysics1, posted 07-24-2008 9:08 AM petrophysics1 has not replied

  
jamison
Junior Member (Idle past 5738 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 07-30-2008


Message 29 of 33 (477274)
07-31-2008 8:26 PM


Who's michelle savage

  
jamison
Junior Member (Idle past 5738 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 07-30-2008


Message 30 of 33 (477276)
07-31-2008 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by LudoRephaim
07-24-2008 6:10 PM


Re: Hmmm
It's spelled collage.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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