Arguments/Discussions - do they work?

OK - my friend & I used to write to a chap about 4 or so years ago. After many heated debates concerning music we decided this guy would never accept any logical arguments we presented him with.From debates at school and, especially, with this guy I concluded that people who don't agree with you on deep-rooted issues will never change their minds - unless deep down they already DO agree with you.So I ask - do these sorts of debates we have here achieve anything other than a (n almost childish) form of "winning" when you back someone into a corner? Take a debate at Free For All - it involves many facts and quotes to do with America's founding fathers, Christianity, Islam, and so on. Yet I don't feel that anyone has presented arguments to "convert" anyone else. It seems almost like people want to present their side and somehow prove it superior to someone else's.I don't know if I explained that very well. Let me give you a clearer example. I take a certain view on this continual war between Israel & Palestine. Others take a position opposing mine. Do we actually want to see The Truth? Does "Truth" exist? Or do we do our little research in order to garner facts that will support our point of view? Not having a good day explaining. I apologise and ask you to bear with me.In a "real" debate it seems to me that we should all approach with a neutral frame of mind and look at facts to determine our position. Instead, we already hold a point of view and merely dig up facts to prove our side or cast doubt on the other person's side.Should we take this "legal" approach to debate? I realise that some issues you cannot approach neutrally - if you have had a loved one die in the September 11th 2001 tragedy then you can't approach Al Qaeda with neutrality. But shouldn't we try and prevent this legal approach? Lawyers arguing in criminal cases don't seem to try and establish what really happened. Instead they try and make people believe THEIR VERSION of "The Truth".Does anyone understand anything I just said? You'll have to forgive me - I've had a rough couple of days and I can't keep my eyes open, let alone allow my brain to think.------------------

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All the boys think she's a spy

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I know exactly what you're saying, and I agree that some of the debaters that hang out on this sort of forum are immoveable objects. But only some are that way: on another board I frequent, our own Rrhain had a several-week dialogue with a teenaged girl who had arrived, YEC guns blazing, absolutely certain that we live on a 6000-year-old earth. Rrhain gently led her to just look rationally at what she was saying, without attacking her right to her religion. After a couple of weeks' absence, she's back and saying, "Yeah, God could have done all that creating the way you say....it even makes sense!"So "conversions" can happen. What I feel is easily as important, though, is the lurker population. This board has perhaps thirty regular posters, and another few occasionals. But look at the numbers on the home page - 1004 members earlier today, and a dozen added every week. They may not be posting, but at least some of them are reading. That's the real audience, and those people are why I need to be 1) more informative and 2) less antagonistic than I sometimes am.

So a lot of people come here...Incidentally, could you tell me which forums here see the most action? A few interested me greatly but no-one seems to reply to any topics there (in all the few days I've spent here ).

Try posting to one you are interested in and it may flare up again.

I'm more of a lurker than a poster here but having read almost every topic has dramatically increased my knowledge about the controversy. I think an increase in information will always lead to some kind of change in opinion, allthough often very small.On the otherhand it is a wellknown psychological mechanism that different groups with conflicting views tend to get more extreme in their viewpoint after debating.Another point that I think prevents "converting" is the harsh attitude that some display. Allthough its quite understandable and I too have crossed the line due to frustration on other boards it really only works counterproductive. That is if u want to convince someone of your stand